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Discussion Starter #1
I dunno if this topic has been here before.

Now's that the Tanjong Pagar Railway Station will be shifted to Woodlands.
So lets disscuss what will the development for this station?

Convert it into another MRT station ? The Western Region Line.
The tracks should be usuable for the current KTM tracks, built another train suitable for it
.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Tanjong Pagar KTM Station to be preserved.
Tracks are to be changed to the standard gauge 1435mm from 1000mm.
Station to used for the future MRT line.
HHPSD to be installed.

The MRT Line could be from Woodlands to Tanjong Pagar via Buona Vista using the orginal KTM line whilst modifiying the track gauge




NW1 - Sungei Kadut
NW10/EW21/CC22 - Buona Vista
NW15/ NE2 - Kampong Bahru (Tanjong Pagar KTM Railway station converted)
 

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Using KTM tracks.Changing the track gauage. This MRT line is called North West line

NW2/NS6 - Sungei Kadut
NW3 - Gali Batu
NW4/DT1 - Bukit Panjang
NW5/DT2 - Cashew
NW6/DT3 - Hillview
NW7 - Jalan Anak Bukit
NW8 - Holland Road
NW9 - Mount Sinai
NW10 - Ghim Moh
NW11/EW21/CC22 - Buona Vista
NW12 - Portsdown
NW13 - Alexandra
NW14/WR11 - Bukit Merah
NW15/NE2 - Kampong Bahru (former Tanjong Pagar KTM railway stn)

all station and tracks are on the ground with some exceptions at bukit timah section.
 
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I was suggesting such a use of KTM tracks on some other thread. But in my concept, it would feature a tunnel to Marina Bay and only few stations, to act as a line faster than MRT.

I speculated that stations could be at Marina Bay, Tanjong Pagar (interchange to the upcoming NE2 station), Buona Vista, Bukit Timah, Bukit Panjang, Yew Tee East and Woodlands.

I send this suggestion to LTA, although they only replied with their enigmatic 'we will consider that in our future review', I keep my fingers crossed. The masterplan you posted hopefully demonstrates they are for that idea.
 

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Part of DTL phase 2 is or can already be considered part of the northwest line, you can already get the official map from the LTA official website, unlike the NEL, which was a single straight line from ponggol /senkang area to harbourfront, the DTL had 3 sections, if you break it up, you'll notice that part of it already cover the northwest region of singapore right up to bukit panjang.
 

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It would be a real shame to waste so much precious land on this. Make it an underground MRT line. Extend it eastward beyond NE2 through the future Keppel-area CBD and terminate at either Raffles Place or Marina Bay.
 

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There will be alot of work required if such a line is built using more or less, KTM's right of way. Firstly, you'd need to double-track the line, which will be the first stumbling block. There is clearly no space for that in many areas; places where there are roads crossing above the track were simply not built to handle a double-tracked narrow gauge, much less a double-tracked standard gauge.

Secondly, MRTs travel pretty fast and pretty frequent - this means nobody's gonna risk anybody crossing the tracks like at several places so this means fencing it up. There is a whole section where the track travels at-grade, crossing several roads even, so electrification, whether using 3rd rail or overhead cables, will be an issue.

Next, modernization. Wheelchair acessibility, air-conditioning, raising platform heights to suit MRT, half-height platform screen doors, advertisement, ventilation, electrical substations and those 'halon rooms' in MRT stations... If preservation is the main intention, what is Tanjung Pagar Railway station gonna look like? I shudder at the thought.

Lastly, the Circle Line and Downtown Line will achieve accessibility much better than this line.
 
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^^ Space shouldn't be an issue. in the few build up places it could go underground or even be stacked. Viaducts could be build above current road crossings. Fencing it out wouldn't be hard, just like between Khatib and Yio Chu Kang so third rail wouldn't be a problem. At-grade railways are extremely common worldwide, even in very dense urban areas, and somehow they are doing fine. I see no point in digging tunnels at all cost, while in fact railways are less narrow and take less space than for instance roads.

Modernization could be skipped if no station was made at TP terminal. As I suggested, it could interchange with NE2. Just brand new stations would be build and nothing would have to be 'upgraded'.

Lastly, the one massive advantage of this idea - time and costs. It could be build way faster than fully underground lines. I dread to imagine how terrible the crowds on MRT will be before DTL and TSL even open. We need solutions ASAP.
 

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^^ Space shouldn't be an issue. in the few build up places it could go underground or even be stacked. Viaducts could be build above current road crossings. Fencing it out wouldn't be hard, just like between Khatib and Yio Chu Kang so third rail wouldn't be a problem. At-grade railways are extremely common worldwide, even in very dense urban areas, and somehow they are doing fine. I see no point in digging tunnels at all cost, while in fact railways are less narrow and take less space than for instance roads.

Modernization could be skipped if no station was made at TP terminal. As I suggested, it could interchange with NE2. Just brand new stations would be build and nothing would have to be 'upgraded'.
Rail construction are time and capital intensive investments. As such, nothing should be a stop-gap situation. You wanna do it fast and yet, you suggest stacked underground and viaducts, and these things take time to construct. Even worse, you suggest it interchanges with NE2. Even if we started that right now, it's going to take at least 3 to 4 years to build.

I doubt the viability of such a line in the first place. If there was REALLY a need, DTL2/CCL4/5 should be 6-car already.
 

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The biggest worries are the grade-level crossings. While electrified grade-level crossings can be made safe (e.g. Tokyo's suburban network, the Chicago "L", etc.), for a high-frequency rapid transit service, it could be inconvenient. The barriers would have to come down so often that people will wonder why they built a road there. Replacing any grade-level crossings will be expensive and difficult.

Besides, the corridor of the KTM is not the busiest nor is it one that will bring in revenue. Tanjong Pagar to Buona Vista is served by the East-West Line, and the Bukit Timah section is already well-served by DTL2. Buona Vista to Bukit Timah is served by CCL4. This entire line would be rendered useless in no time.
 

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Actually instead of looking at it in a dichotomy - either it will succeed or fail... why isn't anyone looking at the possibilities of what such a linear strip of land can provide? If some decision maker comes along and decide on doing one thing - be it turning it into a park, or sell it as real estate, or turn into a single transit corridor, I will wonder how serious he/she is.

We can look at the corridor in sections. Generally I think it can be broken up into 8.
1. AYE corridor
2. Portsdown
3. Tanglin Halt
4. Ghim Moh
5. Blackmore
6. Upper Bt Timah Road
7. Woodlands Rd
8. Kranji-Sungei Mandai
Of course this is not exhaustive, a dedicated team of researchers and experts will definitely be able to break it down into even more sections and make better decisions on relevant uses while keeping to an overall vision for the corridor.

My idea is as follows.
1. AYE - not suitable for real estate due to terrain and proximity to AYE, can be used as part of a new MRT/transit line to serve areas that are currently "missed out" by EWL and CCL.
2. Portsdown - Can be integrated into new developments in the Alexandra/Portsdown area together with Alexandra Hospital, may be developed into a new entertainment and business hub integrating some of heritage elements such as unused rail tracks and the conserved buildings
3. Tanglin Halt - May be integrated into One North or new residential developments around the Commonwealth Stn area.
4. Ghim Moh - Surrounding areas are well developed leaving a narrow corridor - can remain as a park for the community - park connector can snake roughly along the corridor back to Tanjong Pagar as well, taking up the top of the MRT tunnels along the AYE stretch.
5. Blackmore - Definitely given back to real estate developments except for keeping some parts such as the old station and rail bridge as heritage landmarks.
6. Upper Bt Timah - Similar to Blackmore, as most of the leftover areas around the road and railway are wide enough. With exception to the Bt Timah nature reserve area of course, where a simple laying of timber boards above the track will make an excellent trekking route.
7.Woodlands Road, this portion probably has the least opportunities to recover land from. But the removal of the track does allow for more road connections between Woodlands Road and Choa Chu Kang area to provide a better transport network. Maybe a biking track can still be built for the foreign workers and cycling enthusiasts alike.
8. Kranji-Sungei Mandai - given back to nature! This area is a gem that should be preserved and hopefully connected back to Sungei Buloh via an additional inland green corridor.
 
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The biggest worries are the grade-level crossings. While electrified grade-level crossings can be made safe (e.g. Tokyo's suburban network, the Chicago "L", etc.), for a high-frequency rapid transit service, it could be inconvenient. The barriers would have to come down so often that people will wonder why they built a road there. Replacing any grade-level crossings will be expensive and difficult.

Besides, the corridor of the KTM is not the busiest nor is it one that will bring in revenue. Tanjong Pagar to Buona Vista is served by the East-West Line, and the Bukit Timah section is already well-served by DTL2. Buona Vista to Bukit Timah is served by CCL4. This entire line would be rendered useless in no time.
The tracks could simply run on viaducts on the sections with current grade-level crossings. It wouldn't be really tough to build since the train services will be down.

Beside, lets look at the bigger picture - yes, in Singapore, we can agree that majority of densely populated areas are served by MRT lines. So what? The lines are grossly overcrowded and deserve bypasses on longer distances.

In case of this concept, the area adjacent to KTM tracks on short distances might not provide enough catchment but Woodlands, Bukit Panjang and the CBD alone are likely to do it. The hundreds of thousands that now take NSL, buses or drive could take that new faster line. TSL will be doing fine by itself as it runs through many packed areas like Ang Mo Kio.

Frankly speaking, this line could make more sense in relieving loads on existing lines than DTL2, which mainly runs through small condo/bungalow areas.
 

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The tracks could simply run on viaducts on the sections with current grade-level crossings. It wouldn't be really tough to build since the train services will be down.

Beside, lets look at the bigger picture - yes, in Singapore, we can agree that majority of densely populated areas are served by MRT lines. So what? The lines are grossly overcrowded and deserve bypasses on longer distances.

In case of this concept, the area adjacent to KTM tracks on short distances might not provide enough catchment but Woodlands, Bukit Panjang and the CBD alone are likely to do it. The hundreds of thousands that now take NSL, buses or drive could take that new faster line. TSL will be doing fine by itself as it runs through many packed areas like Ang Mo Kio.

Frankly speaking, this line could make more sense in relieving loads on existing lines than DTL2, which mainly runs through small condo/bungalow areas.
That is a poor argument. I'm not against the line but in its current version, the line is not effective nor adequate for the fact that it stops short of the CBD by ending at Tanjong Pagar. So to get to the other parts of the city, the line relies on a single station - NE2 and this is the line's biggest flaw. If a commuter living in the northwest wants to go to the Marina Bay area, he/she must transfer at NE2, and transfer to the DTL at Chinatown. If they want to go to Orchard or Bugis, transfer at NE2, and transfer at either Dhoby Ghaut or Outram Park. If going to HarbourFront, then transfer at either Buona Vista or at NE2.

I'm sure people living in Woodlands and Bukit Panjang will appreciate a line that will take them somewhere they really want to go, not an express line to nowhere, then be forced to make multiple rail line transfers on crowded lines to get to their final destination.
 

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Agreed. I do not think that if a line is proposed on part of, or the entire KTM track, it will follow exactly the track from end to end. From Bt Merah, the line may divert towards the north onto the Neil Road area and connect to the CBD proper, bypassing Tanjong Pagar Station. Tanjong Pagar/Keppel Area will be served by NE2 on the north, and another line on the south in the future when there is a more comprehensive plan for the existing port.
 
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That is a poor argument. I'm not against the line but in its current version, the line is not effective nor adequate for the fact that it stops short of the CBD by ending at Tanjong Pagar. So to get to the other parts of the city, the line relies on a single station - NE2 and this is the line's biggest flaw. If a commuter living in the northwest wants to go to the Marina Bay area, he/she must transfer at NE2, and transfer to the DTL at Chinatown. If they want to go to Orchard or Bugis, transfer at NE2, and transfer at either Dhoby Ghaut or Outram Park. If going to HarbourFront, then transfer at either Buona Vista or at NE2.

I'm sure people living in Woodlands and Bukit Panjang will appreciate a line that will take them somewhere they really want to go, not an express line to nowhere, then be forced to make multiple rail line transfers on crowded lines to get to their final destination.
To make it clear, I'm not really an advocate of the line, I'm just saying it might work.

Yes, I agree with you that if the station ran only to the current KTM Tanjong Pagar Terminal, it would be useless. But if it extended on a relatively short tunnel to Marina Bay (possibly with a shell station for connection to future CCL6 under TPCT), it could work out. In that case, rest of the CBD would be accessible with 1 or 2 transfers.

Bugis - From Marina Bay through Raffles Place/City Hall. Cross platform interchange would make the trip very smooth.
Chinatown, Harborfront, Little India - through NE2
Bayfront, Promenade - by CCLe
Orchard - straight train on NSL.

In this configuration, I suppose the demand would be pretty realistic to justify that line.
 

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To make it clear, I'm not really an advocate of the line, I'm just saying it might work.

Yes, I agree with you that if the station ran only to the current KTM Tanjong Pagar Terminal, it would be useless. But if it extended on a relatively short tunnel to Marina Bay (possibly with a shell station for connection to future CCL6 under TPCT), it could work out. In that case, rest of the CBD would be accessible with 1 or 2 transfers.

Bugis - From Marina Bay through Raffles Place/City Hall. Cross platform interchange would make the trip very smooth.
Chinatown, Harborfront, Little India - through NE2
Bayfront, Promenade - by CCLe
Orchard - straight train on NSL.

In this configuration, I suppose the demand would be pretty realistic to justify that line.
no offence but that part from Tanjong pagar, NEL 2 and Marina bay/marina pier and also CCL 6 is already taken up by TSL

refer to TSL thread , page 42 and package D, where the tender conditions are already set by LTA.

for elevated tracks, these track needs a lot of maintenance and also ballast stones to keep the track stable, a good example is the existing NSEW lines, the tracks are also exposed to weather conditions where it can expand and contract in changing weather conditions, therefore constant maintenance is needed in these areas.

for underground tracks, the tracks are embedded in concrete,although it require lesser maintenance. it is unwise to use concrete embedded tracks on elevated areas as the weather conditons will cause stress not only on the concrete but also on the track itself which could pose a major problem, it's not as easy as you think it would be.
 

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TSL will most likely run along the northern part of Tanjong Pagar, from Outram Park to Maxwell and along McCallum St. This leaves the Southern end - Hoe Chiang-Anson area still unserved by any MRT line. Development around this area has been phenomenal this few years, brought on by a lot of renewal and redevelopments, so I think ultimately either CCL6 or another line will have to serve this area.
 

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Tengah-Keppel Line

I propose a new line to be built in the 2020s.

From somewhere in the as-yet-to-be-developed Tengah area, the TKL would interchange with the NSL at Bukit Gombak, a new station in the Hillview area, an interchange with the DTL2 at Beauty World, a new station near the Childrens' Aid Society serving Ngee Ann Polytechnic and the Singapore Institute of Management, an interchange station with the future Holland Line near Ulu Pandan Road and Holland Grove Road, an interchange with CCL and EWL at Buona Vista, then a few stations along Queensway and Jalan Bukit Merah, an interchange with the NEL at NE2, and finally some coverage of the future Keppel-area CBD including a CCL6 interchange.
 
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