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Must British Museum return the Acropolis Marbels to Greece?

  • Yes, right now to be preseved to New Acropolis Museum

    Votes: 64 90.1%
  • Yes, only like a loan, Greece in the mean time should also send several antiquies to British Museum

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, the owner is British Museum

    Votes: 5 7.0%
  • No, they belong to Great Britain and the Queen Elizabeth

    Votes: 2 2.8%

Must British Museum return to Greece the Parthenon Marbels or not?

46673 Views 443 Replies 69 Participants Last post by  dromeas
Must the Brtish Museum return the marbles to Greece and the Ne Acropolis Museum in Athens???
1 - 20 of 444 Posts
^^The poll is closed in the DLM thread. Even if there was be a European court decision in favor of Greece, and the unanimous support of UNESCO, even then I don't think they British would return them. British Museum basically operates due to the marbles, thats the reason why most people visit the place.
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As a Greekcypriot I know that the British have a very hard time letting go of what they steal! I don't have much hope for this issue. But as an exchange we could always ask them to cut off almost all of the facade of the House of Commons and put it Greek museums! Eventhough this would do very little to equal the stealing of the Parthenon Marbles it's a step in the right direction. After that it would be the ''Queens'' palace facade.
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British are pirates. They've been stealing from the rest of the world for centuries. If they had any shame they would have returned the marbles by now.
I think that eventually the British Museum will return the Parthenon sculptures back to Greeece. I am not sure if it will happen in my lifetime, but obviously there is more for both the British and New Acropolis Museum to gain if they were returned. Despite the huge obsticle that Greece faces with the British Museum and the British government there is an important factor that favours the marbles being brought back to Athens, and that is British public opinion. For the most part the idea of museums sprang up in the European age of imperialism and for many people throughout he world today that notion no longer holds true and is a bit of an embarrassment to many European societies. This is the delma not only the British Museum faces but also a great number of museums now face throughout the world. In order for museum to be relevant they cannot rely on imperilaist spoils of war to showcase to the world. Museums need to be relevant and need to draw more people inside and in order to do so they need to have periodic blockbuster exhibitions. The only future for museums is to sign agreements with other institutions and bring in 'new' shows every few years to get more people to come in and explore. Museums that refuse to share their collections or that claim their questionable collections as their own intellectual property will be marginalized more and more by a sophisticated public that no longer adhers to the old imperialist notions of what constitutes a museum's collection. Surely in the end the British Museum will realize it would be more in their interest to follow public opinion and give back the Parthenon sculptures to Greece and in return forge a new agreement with the Greek government where antiquities can more easily be displayed in each others museums. Only by making an agreement with Greece can the British Museum move ahead and score points with British public opinion thus creating an atmosphere in which the institution becomes relevant again instead of being a relic of a bygone era of imperialism psychologically seperated from its own present day public visitors.
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Although I want the Marbles to return to Greece (of course), I'm not voting in this poll in protest. I'm protesting because -and this has happened before- it's important not to associate all of Britain and the British people with the British Museum. I think that the last option in this poll ("No, they belong to Great Britain and the Queen Elizabeth") is an unfair swipe at the British people, the majority of whom support Greece in this issue. There are several British MPs, as well as British NGOs, British intellectuals, British celebrities, and the large majority of the British public (according to opinion polls), who support Greece on this issue, and it's very important that we continue to draw their support, rather than alienate them. And we don't even know where the Queen stands on this issue, nor will we probably ever know her opinion on this, because I seriously doubt she'll ever state it publically. Additionally, I question the intention of this poll in the first place. This is the Hellenic Agora. What do you think the outcome of the poll will be?
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I cannot help but to draw parallels with the current political situation in Britain.

The MP's took advantage of the system to draw massive amounts of money from public coffers which was unethical but quite alright because they public didn't know about it! In addition in the leadership you have someone that ignores public opinion and states that he will not put the UK through the chaos of elections! (ridiculous if you claim that your country is the fortress of democracy).

The same thing happened with the marbles. Elgin took advantage of the Ottoman system, which was beginning to cramble because of corruption, to take away what was not his without the approval of the people it belonged to, thus unethical. And now that the truth is out there the British museum (a global authority in the matters of archeological items) is ignoring the call of millions of Greeks to return what is theirs ignoring public opinion (also Britons who support the repatriation) and thus democracy.

Conclusion: The UK authorities at all levels (not the people) are acustomed to ignoring the laws and the public opinion, if they have the power and when they get it, for their own benefit. Thus they are highly corrupted, similarly to the countries which their authorities like to point their finger to.
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I totally agree with Skyduster that we should not mix British authorities with ordinary British people, the majority of whom support the return of the sculptures. And i will add that we should never turn this to an Olympiakos/Panathinaikos brainless quarrel. We have nothing to gain by insulting the British people just because of a few obnoxious ones in this forum, their government etc. act the way they do. Most of the British people i have talked to in real life (if not all) support us. Those of us who are into this simply looking for a quarrel perhaps should stick to football and stop hurting our case.
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I totally agree with Skyduster that we should not mix British authorities with ordinary British people, the majority of whom support the return of the sculptures. And i will add that we should never turn this to an Olympiakos/Panathinaikos brainless quarrel. We have nothing to gain by insulting the British people just because of a few obnoxious ones in this forum, their government etc. act the way they do. Most of the British people i have talked to in real life (if not all) support us. Those of us who are into this simply looking for a quarrel perhaps should stick to football and stop hurting our case.
I agree with skyduster..but i dont think we hurting our case at all....

At least we have a vote on the 4th choice......
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Ares I return your insult to you...
First of all the only reason British Museum doesnt have any ability to return the Parthenon Marbles is because it has the mentality of Great Britain of the past....They believe are gains of their oversea tertories so they belong to the brittish nation...and of corse to the Queen....
Their mentality on this havent change at all...the majority of british want to return the Parthenon Marbels to Greece...and I know it....but the past class of Lords and circle of the Palace of Great Britain still believes at the gains of the oversea teritories and Parthenon Marbels is just a show of that past power and victory over the control of the World.....
Other time open a discussion and dont blame easily like superficial cause you are not at all..trust me..:cheers:
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Although I want the Marbles to return to Greece (of course), I'm not voting in this poll in protest. I'm protesting because -and this has happened before- it's important not to associate all of Britain and the British people with the British Museum. I think that the last option in this poll ("No, they belong to Great Britain and the Queen Elizabeth") is an unfair swipe at the British people, the majority of whom support Greece in this issue. There are several British MPs, as well as British NGOs, British intellectuals, British celebrities, and the large majority of the British public (according to opinion polls), who support Greece on this issue, and it's very important that we continue to draw their support, rather than alienate them. And we don't even know where the Queen stands on this issue, nor will we probably ever know her opinion on this, because I seriously doubt she'll ever state it publically. Additionally, I question the intention of this poll in the first place. This is the Hellenic Agora. What do you think the outcome of the poll will be?
I agree with what you have said. However I still voted for them tlo be returned to Athens, where they truly belong, even though I still have some concerns about their welfare.
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British are pirates. They've been stealing from the rest of the world for centuries. If they had any shame they would have returned the marbles by now.
All 'civilizations' and Empires have stolen from one other. Do you think the Greeks didn't pillage Egypt and the Near East or the Romans, Greece? In many ways the Brits have been the greatest propogators of Hellenic history and culture through their world class schools in Classical Studies. I mean just think of the world's most famous classicists and archaeolgists, a great deal of them who were/are British.
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Guys something completely off topic but it seems that the skyscrapercity site has been attacked by a web virus called Exploit WebAttacker.Everytime I click on a link my antivirus programm pops up a window letting me know about the threat.I googled it and found this.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008...s-exploit-webattacker-browser-malware-part-i/

So update your antivirus programms and run a check!
I'm going to post it in other threads as well so everyone can see.
this is a very contreversial topic. if you think of it, all things should rightly belong to the country and its peaople that they originated from. however, once property has passed through many hands, it is difficult to differentiate where it actually belongs. that is when you look at the topic democraticly; although, having said all of this, everyone has the right to possess what is rightly theres. right?
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xiote wrote:

In many ways the Brits have been the greatest propogators of Hellenic history and culture through their world class schools in Classical Studies. I mean just think of the world's most famous classicists and archaeolgists, a great deal of them who were/are British.
^^ Yes this is true but only to a certain degree, we have to be very careful when giving too much praise to the Brits or the French or even the German archaeologist. I can tell you from my personal experience graduating in history and classical studies back in 1989 from York university in Canada and going on several archaeological surveys in Greece with American and British schools, many professors and students did not all look favourably on present day Greece nor the attempt by Greece of reuniting the Parthenon sculptures. In fact the general public is most likely not aware how these international run archaeological schools in Greece so jealously guard their own 'findings' from each other. To add insult to the injury concerning the removal of the Parthenon sculptures many in Britain are trying to rewrite history and sell us the notion that what they done was good; that they in fact were preserving these marbles, just as I am sure the Germans believe that they are preserving the alter of Pergamon by having it moved it to Berlin. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pergamon_Museum ) Yes it's great that British archaeologist admire Greek history and work on archaeologial digs, however their attidue at times isn't the greatest, and lets face it many early European archaeologists did lot of damage in Greece and Egypt and Turkey people like Sir Arthor Evans at Knossos and even Heinrich Schliemann at Mycenea to a lesser extent. I think there are many lessons to be learned when dealing with former Imperial European powers and that Greece should look at perhaps limiting access to British archaeological schools operations if the Bristish Museum and British government fails to come to an agreement with the New Acropolis Museum concerning the Parthenon sculptures.
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^^Agree with SonOfSparta, the truth about international relationships of all kinds is always somewhere in the middle. We should not praise nor accuse anyone, but assert any contemporary situation with logic. And the logical thing in our time is to return the marbles in Athens.
As I see it, leaving the entire British imperialism debate aside .....the whole issue seems to centre around who has "legal ownership" of the marbles.

Even as late as last last week Minister Samaras refused the British Museum's (BM) offer to loan the Parthenon Marbles for three (3) months on the basis that the Greek State does not recognise the BM's ownership of the Marbles.

The Greek State and the BM Trustees, need to deal with the question of "ownership" once and for all.

What ever happened to the idea that the Parthenon Galleries in the New Acropolis Museum would be "turned over" in a legal sense to the British Museum to house their collection of the Parthenon Marbles in Athens?

This way, both Greek and "British" collections of the parthenon marbes are reunited in Athens under one musuem , and the BM still has the prestege of "owning" the marbles and achieves a major presence near one of the world's architectural and cultural marvels.

The British Museum Annexe at the Acropolis Museum could also work closely with the British School of Archaeology which has been in Athens for over 150 years and has been at the forefront of research into ancient Greece.

And in return, the Greek State would ensure that the Duveen Galleries in the British Museum had a regular display of Greek Antiquities........Some appropriate exhbitions could include (my suggestions only):-

"Ancient Macedonia-Treasures of Greece"
"Greek Beauty -Human form in Antiquity"
"The Olympic Games - From Ancient Olympia to London 2012"
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All 'civilizations' and Empires have stolen from one other. Do you think the Greeks didn't pillage Egypt and the Near East or the Romans, Greece?
Νο!we were no barbarians....we have not taken ancient marbles from countries we conquered..because we had our own!we knew the value!nations barbarians without dep history like Romans and British take and destroy ancient marbles ...
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please stop calling people barbarians or non-barbarians, it's borderline racism and I guarantee you in history whoever had power always took advantage of others.....it's like talking of a war where only one side kills....lol

let's stick to what happens now.

and no, history doesnt belong to a country, the country is simply the guardian.....and might have closer links to the items but that's it.

The marbles simply must return because it is an incomplete puzzle. simple.


and no modern greeks didnt build them either as some(few) hope or believe :)

im surprised there is still discussion, they should be returned.
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