SkyscraperCity Forum banner
1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,411 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Uissu--here is an article from The Japan Times--what do you think? Is Nagoya the new hot city in Japan?

SECONDS OUT . . .
Nagoya takes on Osaka

By ERIC JOHNSTON
Staff writer

NAGOYA -- Psst! Heard about the hottest "new" place in Japan? The city that's rapidly gaining a national reputation for being at the cutting edge of women's fashion and is, perhaps, the country's most vibrant economic center?

Welcome to Nagoya. Yes, that's right. Nagoya. No, it's not just a gray urban blight upon the landscape that you pass through on the shinkansen on your way to some place more interesting.

After years of being the butt of many jokes, ugly duckling Nagoya is transforming, albeit slowly, into a swan -- with a local economy that is doing well, and with a growing civic pride that has optimists convinced that Nagoya may one day be the second-most important city in Japan.

But don't tell that to Osakans, unless you want to get into a long, and sometimes heated, debate. Nagoya, they are quick point out, is too small, too provincial and completely lacking in important history or culture to become a serious rival.

Maybe. But Osakans aren't as confident as they were a few years ago.

"Nagoya is energetic, Osaka is tired." Over the past year in particular, commentators familiar with both cities have used this phrase to describe the difference not only in economics, but also in basic attitudes in the two cities.

While dismissing the rivalry as nothing more than media hype, Osaka officials are now less likely to hide their irritation, and sometimes concern, when asked about the "new" Nagoya. Nagoya officials, on the other hand, don't hesitate -- politely and quietly in most cases -- to offer reasons why Nagoya could eventually overtake Osaka as Japan's second city.

So how do the two cities measure up against each other?

Academics, pseudo-academics and just plain partisan supporters of each town offer reams of statistics to support their arguments. But here are some reasons that, if less analytical, are arguably more profound and give a better sense of how the two cities differ.

Attitudes toward money
"Nagoya people hate debt and love saving money. Osaka people are gamblers by nature." That is something one often hears in Nagoya.

In the book "Nagoya-jin," a group of Nagoya-based writers note that many people in Nagoya start saving money when they are as young as 16. In Osaka, by contrast, an easygoing attitude toward debt means the percentage of personal and corporate bankruptcies there is among the highest in the nation.

In the wake of the bubble economy's collapse in the early 1990s, these differing basic attitudes have, economists and others say, ultimately hurt Osaka and helped Nagoya. A refusal to run up huge local government debts in particular has made it easier for Nagoya to turn things around, while Osaka struggled, and continues to struggle, with some of the highest local government debt in the nation.

Fashion sense
Osakans are noted for fashions that are either "interesting" or "loud," depending on your taste. For those who like to wear polyester, shocking-pink dresses and lime-green suits, Osaka is the place to be seen.

Nagoya's fashion tastes, on the other hand, are either "conservative" or "dowdy," once again depending on your taste. But for a large number of people nationwide, conservative fashions are now back in style.

In short, the thinking goes, Osaka fashions were appropriate for the bubble-economy years, but the Nagoya style is considered more hip and trendy these days.

The exception to this rule for women is the "Nagoya curl" hairstyle, which was supposedly invented by a stylist in central Nagoya and has become something of a national trend.

A cynic might suggest there is also an "Osaka curl" hairstyle. Think punch perms for yakuza gang members. No question as to which hair style today's trendy young women prefer.

Shopping
The authors of "Nagoya-jin" note that it is common for mothers to give their daughters hand-me-down brand-name items bought at discount stores. Likewise, they note, Nagoya people tend to walk slowly through the streets because they are always on the lookout for bargains.

Osakans, by contrast, will spend a small fortune on the latest brand-name item and then take it or wear it to a cheap restaurant or bar. A recent survey by a fashion magazine showed that if given 100,000 yen to spend on either a new brand-name item or a trip abroad, nearly two-thirds of Osaka women under the age of 25 would choose the brand-name item.

Food
Osaka is renowned for its takoyaki (octopus-based snacks) and okonomiyaki (savory pancakes), and Osakans firmly believe they inhabit Japan's gourmet capital. Nagoya, on the other hand, is famous for its Nagoya-style broiled eel, its miso and, apparently, for its ramen tea shops, especially the Sugakiya chain.

Here, you can order a full-course lunch, which includes a small fruit bowl as an appetizer, a bowl of ramen and dessert.

You be the judge of which city deserves (if it does) the title of gourmet capital of Japan.

As for non-Japanese cuisine, even Nagoya people admit Osaka is streets ahead, as it has hundreds of ethnic, especially Asian, restaurants that offer authentic fare.

There is one exception. With its large population of Brazilians and Japanese-Brazilians working in the local auto industry, some foreign residents say that Nagoya is now the best place -- not only in Japan but the whole of Asia -- to find genuine Brazilian fare.

Openness toward outsiders
Here, Osakans proclaim loudly that they are far more open than Nagoya to outside ideas and foreign visitors and residents. Osaka businessmen have long considered Kyoto and Nagoya as the two most closed cities in Japan for outsiders to do business.

Westerners, at least those who live in Nagoya and know both cities, tend to side with Osaka on this. Nagoya may be a Japanese-media hot-spot right now, as well as a growing darling of the international financial press due to its tight fiscal policy, but long-term Western residents of Nagoya say all this obscures the fact that Nagoya is a very closed and conservative factory town, run by a half dozen industries with Toyota at the top, and is not particularly welcoming to outsiders.

Osaka, by contrast, constantly reminds newcomers of its long history of trade with China and Korea, and proclaims that this has led to Osaka being a far more tolerant place.

Human-rights groups acknowledge that it is rare, compared with Nagoya or even Tokyo, to hear about foreigners in Osaka being denied housing, access to restaurants or clubs, or suffering other overt forms of discrimination.

It is also true that Nagoya and its surrounding environs have had high-profile cases of racial discrimination, and there have been reports of restaurants using "entrance fees" to keep out unwanted foreign customers.

* * *

In short, Nagoya and Osaka are cities that are proud of their individual traits, especially as both have had to struggle in the past with negative images in a country where a Tokyo-centric view of Japan dominates.

So, for those seeking the truth, forget about what you read in the media, including this article. Instead, just hop on a train, or plane, and check out both cities to decide which is your No. 1.

* * *
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,406 Posts
Interesting. Nagoya is going to be the hype in 2005 with the Exhibition, the new airport, the maglev commuter line..
 

·
Gosford/Sydney.
Joined
·
1,676 Posts
Welcome to Nagoya. Yes, that's right. Nagoya. No, it's not just a gray urban blight upon the landscape that you pass through on the shinkansen on your way to some place more interesting.
LOL

I had to laugh at that one.

THis was the way I viewed Nagoya for a long time.But recently I went up there on the Skywave for a short day visit.Just to look around.I was very impressed with the layout and organisaton of the streets.Unlike Tokyo and Osaka,Nagoya's center of gravity is in one place.The city goes back from the station about 10 blocks in a grid like fashion.Sakae is a nice hip shopping and entertainment area.

As for challenging Osaka.I dont think so_Osaka is too big,and along with Tokyo,is the only true Megacity in Japan.Nagoya is definitely going through a boom time.All cities boom and bust.While Osaka is down,its not out.Give it time to sort itself out.Some of the projects going up in Osaka at the moment make anything in Nagoya look small.The redvelopment of Osaka Station and the disused railway yard next to it,will be the country's largest urban renewal project when it hits its peak in construction in the next few years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
Nick said:
The redvelopment of Osaka Station and the disused railway yard next to it,will be the country's largest urban renewal project when it hits its peak in construction in the next few years.
Hope it goes well. The whole area was a bit depressing when I walked through it from Osaka Station last year to see the Umeda Sky Building (yes, I know there's a pedestrian subway that's a lot faster, but I didn't know that at the time :doh: )
 
G

·
Nagoya may one day be the second-most important city in Japan.
Nagoya will never surpass Osaka. Osaka's stock exchange is as large as the Euronext - Paris, Amsterdam and Brussels combined and in many ways Osaka is far ahead of Nagoya. Nagoya's booming economy these days will however reconfirm its position to be the 3rd most important city of Japan. Nagoya's international airport for instance used be behind Sapporo and Fukuoka's. The Centrair will change it totally. It will become as large as KIX in Osaka.
 

·
Gosford/Sydney.
Joined
·
1,676 Posts
Me too.Im going to buy a weekend ticket and ride up there on the weekend for a visit.I will most likely hang out in the Autralian pavilion,telling all the locals how great Australia is.
 

·
Tears of Buddha
Joined
·
1,421 Posts
Pooooop said:
Nagoya will never surpass Osaka. Osaka's stock exchange is as large as the Euronext - Paris, Amsterdam and Brussels combined and in many ways Osaka is far ahead of Nagoya. Nagoya's booming economy these days will however reconfirm its position to be the 3rd most important city of Japan. Nagoya's international airport for instance used be behind Sapporo and Fukuoka's. The Centrair will change it totally. It will become as large as KIX in Osaka.
Nagoya has Japan's top industrial productivity and industrial output. Toyota, baded on Nagoya, is the biggest and strongest company in Japan. Nagoya Port is the busiest and most important of all ports in Japan. The average income of Nagoya citizens is much higher than Osakan's.

Osaka is still Japan's No.2?????
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
331 Posts
Shouldn't you consider total income instead of "average" income of each city? Osaka is a much bigger city you know, so the total output would put it ahead of Nagoya instead of looking at the average income of everybody. I don't know about this for sure, just a thought, so correct me if I'm wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
Nick said:
I will most likely hang out in the Autralian pavilion,telling all the locals how great Australia is.
LOL that's gonna shit the volunteer staff :tongue2: (I was gonna do the same thing though).

I'll probably go the first week of April, after the Tokyo Anime Fair :)
 
G

·
coldstar said:
Nagoya has Japan's top industrial productivity and industrial output. Toyota, baded on Nagoya, is the biggest and strongest company in Japan. Nagoya Port is the busiest and most important of all ports in Japan. The average income of Nagoya citizens is much higher than Osakan's.

Osaka is still Japan's No.2?????
Sorry but that isn't true. Nagoya's standard of living is about the same as Osaka's, the GDP per capita of weak 50,000 USD. What bringing down the standard of Osaka is the surrounding regions like Wakayama and Nara, the poorest regions of Japan. Toyota is Japan's best automobile industry but Osaka overall has far more global firms located in the city. Anyone who doubts Osaka being Japan's second city is plain wrong. No one can argue about it, it is the fact.
 
G

·
I've never visited Nagoya, only glimpsed it from the train, but someone I know who lived there told me it was rich but boring. Can anyone confirm/disconfirm that from first-hand expeirence? As for Nara, it may be poor by Japanese standards but it is a delightful town. Funny to think it was once the capital. Osaka is buzzing, but parts of it are very shabby.
 

·
Tears of Buddha
Joined
·
1,421 Posts
Pooooop said:
Sorry but that isn't true. Nagoya's standard of living is about the same as Osaka's.
No. In fact, the income level of the people in Osaka City (not Osaka Prefecture and Kansai region) falls short of the Japanese standard. (wealthy people live on the outskirts of Osaka City and in many satellite cities, instead of living in the centre of Osaka City.)
Besides, as for the number of the completely unemployed and/or the families receiving public assistance, Osaka City is always Japan's worst. And what is worse, Osaka teeters on the brink of financial collapse.
Nagoya makes a beautiful contrast to Osaka in all aspects.
Once again, Osaka used to be the center of industry in Japan, but now the industrial production in Nagoya is larger than Osaka and Kobe combinded.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
I'll admit, the downtown shopping area (Sakae) is very pretty, with trees along the avenues and a long central park/mall area. Tokyo Ginza is extremely sterile with no greenery anywhere. Osaka Shinsaibashi is a bit better.

Nagoya's definitely small. The second busiest station, Kanayama, practically has nothing interesting around the station area.
 
G

·
coldstar said:
No. In fact, the income level of the people in Osaka City (not Osaka Prefecture and Kansai region) falls short of the Japanese standard. (wealthy people live on the outskirts of Osaka City and in many satellite cities, instead of living in the centre of Osaka City.)
Besides, as for the number of the completely unemployed and/or the families receiving public assistance, Osaka City is always Japan's worst. And what is worse, Osaka teeters on the brink of financial collapse.
Nagoya makes a beautiful contrast to Osaka in all aspects.
Once again, Osaka used to be the center of industry in Japan, but now the industrial production in Nagoya is larger than Osaka and Kobe combinded.
That is still wrong. Osaka city's output is 1.8 times larger than Nagoya city's. When compared the prefectural figures between Osaka and Aichi, Osaka still is better off in a quite large margin. Nagoya's income level is higher than Osaka's but the difference is very tiny, like 5,000 Yen. Osaka's economy was rather bad, until few years back but not anymore. The information you are holding about Osaka's economy is then probably badly outdated. Umeda area is (and will be) booming far better than what Nagoya's central area is. Like in Tokyo, Osaka has several different areas to look around while Nagoya's central area is the clearly defined small square kms/miles. Osaka has certain gritty areas but is overall cleaner, waterly and nicer than what Nagoya is. If you say bad things about Osaka, most of which aren't true, I can tell the same for Nagoya. Nagoya is boring and conservative. A lot of the architectures in Nagoya are also very mediocre. Things like Centrair should have been built 10 years ago if it wants to compete with Osaka's KIX. KIX will build new terminals and 2 other runways (one of them will finish the construction in 2007, more than double the size of the airport island initially built) soon. Nagoya's JR Central Towers are tall but butt ugly. Osaka has never built the meaningless object like Oasis 21, which has its own embarassing claim such as "The Water Space Ship" for that tacky thing in the middle of Sakae. What a waste of money. There are many pointless things in Nagoya. The transit system Yutorito Line is another one. The hybrid bus & train is a useless idea and has very little benefits, unlike what the LRTs can achieve.

I agree with everyone that Nagoya is booming but I don't think it will surpass Osaka. It's the 3rd position of Japan and is moving on, to consolidate its position it seems. If Nagoya booms, that means Japan will boom and of course is very positive for the country. Expo 2005 is a very welcoming event to show Japan's technological might. I'm nothing against Nagoya but you've brought up some trivial things for Osaka.

(wealthy people live on the outskirts of Osaka City and in many satellite cities, instead of living in the centre of Osaka City.)
Have you been learning the British (Australian) English?? Or are you a British or Australian?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,533 Posts
Look at the following lists...

Metros by GDP 2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_GDP

Metros by GDP 2020
http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/richest-cities-2020.html

And theres many more... don't you think it's weird Nagoya is not on any of them but Fukuoka is? Nagoya is the third largest metro in Japan and has one of the highest GDP per capita.. according to this
http://www.i-bac.jp/economy/index.html

Nagoya's metro GDP isn't that far behind Osaka's...

So my question is why is Nagoya missing in all the international data/rankings of cities?? It should be in the top 20 to 30 at least.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,862 Posts
Interesting, and good question. Of course, you can always email the website and provide the data and sources, as well as contribute to the wikipedia entry.

According to the city of Nagoya, its GDP accounts for 1% of the global economy, and another website claims the GDP of the Nagoya Metro area is greater than the nation of Switzerland.

http://www.city.nagoya.jp/global/en/more/industry/nagoya00064748.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,533 Posts
Thanks for the replies! Unfortunately the data in your links is from 2004...I wish I could find some data for 2008/2009. I would like to update many statistics..

According to your link Nagoya was 10.7% of Japan's GDP in 2004 and it's GDP was 459 billion. In 2010 Japans GDP is $5.273 trillion, assuming Nagoya is still 10.7% of Japan's GDP Nagoya's 2010 GDP is 564 billion. Assuming it dropped to 10% then Nagoya's GDP is 527.3 billion.

That would put Nagoya as the 8th or 9th largest metro GDP in the world and a GDP per capita of (assuming the GDP is 564 billion) at $62,667. If the GDP in 2010 is 527.3 instead of 564 the GDP per capita is $58,556 which is the highest per capita GDP of all (large) metros in Japan.
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top