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New stadium for the Devil Rays?

10960 Views 31 Replies 19 Participants Last post by  SDK4
I just read an interesting article in the NY Times about the rays. The owner is quoted saying the Trop has a shelf life of five years. And that baseball doesn't feel right indoors.

Any thoughts on where you would like to see a new stadium?

Devil Rays Tempting Fans With a Field Trip

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla., May 3 — Under the dome of Tropicana Field, Carlos Peña hit a pop-up that never came down. It lodged in the ceiling for a foul ball. Next time up, in the 10th inning, Peña hit another pop-up that caromed off a catwalk and landed for a single behind the confused Minnesota infielders.

That hit fueled a rally that gave the Tampa Bay Devil Rays a 4-3 victory before 9,101 fans. Later, Peña said that he liked the quirky indoor stadium but also looked forward to going to Disney World for three games in the open air of a spring training and minor league facility about 100 miles northeast.

“It’s a gorgeous ballpark, and it’s also close to my home,” Peña said Wednesday of the 7,500-seat stadium at Disney’s Wide World of Sports complex in Orlando, where the Devil Rays will play host to the Texas Rangers on May 15-17. “I live in Orlando. Hopefully, I can get a couple of my teammates over to my house for dinner.”

Perhaps Peña can invite the customers, too, as part of the team’s new marketing campaign. If ticket sales do not improve for the games against the Rangers, the Devil Rays’ experiment at a home-away-from-home site could be a disappointment.

Tampa Bay’s new ownership, in its second season, is trying to expand the regional profile of one of baseball’s weakest franchises. Stuart Sternberg, the principal owner, would not reveal specific ticket sales at the Disney park, but he expressed concern.

“It’s a low number,” said Sternberg, whose team is averaging 15,729 this season. “If we don’t end up attracting a reasonable crowd, it would be my first significant disappointment.”

Sternberg and his top aides are baseball novices who did well on Wall Street. Their newest investment certainly has potential.

With the youngest roster in baseball, the Devil Rays rank near the bottom of the 30 major league teams in attendance (last in the A.L. each of the past six years), payroll (last in the majors this season) and franchise valuation (29th, according to Forbes magazine). They drew 1.37 million fans last season, up from 1.14 million in 2005. They hope for 1.5 million this season. Their circumstances are somewhat paradoxical.

The Devil Rays play 81 regular-season home games in a region best known for spring training. Although their state is known for outdoor activity and year-round sunshine, the sun never shines in their stadium and the scorecards flutter in the artificial breeze of the air-conditioning.

The team’s name mentions Tampa, but it plays in St. Petersburg. Another step to expand the brand will come in 2009, when the Devil Rays plan to move their spring training camp from St. Petersburg to Port Charlotte, Fla., about 78 miles to the southeast.

Matt Silverman, the 30-year-old president of the Devil Rays, said that “there are blemishes and there are challenges” about the franchise and that “this is a work in progress.” The word Devil may soon be dropped, he said, among other changes, a decade after the team’s expansion debut.

“We expect to change our uniform and our colors and our logo effective for the 2008 season,” Silverman said.

So far, the new management has invested $18 million for improvements in a stadium that opened in 1990 but has not aged well.

“Baseball does not feel right indoors,” Sternberg said.

The current capacity is 36,736, reduced by 4,000 this season by blue tarps that are draped over seats high in the upper deck. The field is covered with a new version of grasslike artificial turf.

“How do we make the best of this thing?” Sternberg said. “It wasn’t built to last 30 to 40 years.”

Although he made no threats to move or suggestions for a new stadium, he said of the current stadium, “We recognize it has a shelf life of five years.”

For now, management will try to build fan identification with young, talented and relatively inexpensive players like Delmon Young, B. J. Upton and Carl Crawford.

In their first nine seasons, the Devil Rays finished out of last place in the American League East only once, when they were second to last in 2004 and won a franchise-best 70 games. [Their 14-17 record this season projects to 73 victories.]

For the second year, the Devil Rays are allowing free parking on stadium-owned lots and are permitting fans to bring in some food and beverages. Stadium workers have been retrained in customer relations.

The original ownership, headed by Vince Naimoli, alienated people with a heavy-handed approach. A local high school band, scheduled to play the national anthem, once canceled its appearance when the Devil Rays demanded its members buy tickets.

“We are changing the personality of the organization and the Trop,” Silverman said. New family-friendly innovations include a fish tank in right-center field where fans can touch and feed more than 30 cownose rays.

Curiously, such attractions are located near stadium holdovers like a cigar bar and a pool hall sponsored by a liquor company. The cognitive dissonance extends to the home clubhouse, where a large sign bears a quotation from Albert Camus: “Integrity has no need of rulers.”

Sternberg said that the notion of playing a series at Disney World was “a eureka sort of idea” and “seemed to me like a no-brainer.” For one of the games, the ceremonial first pitch will be thrown out by the stock-car legend Richard Petty.

The sojourn will be a win/win for pitcher Casey Fossum, who said his children loved to go to Disney World and enjoyed watching him pitch. Fans who buy tickets will receive a free voucher for a game at the dome. “Hopefully, they’ll come back for more at the Trop,” Fossum said.

For the Disney games, the best box seats near home plate sell for $119. The cheapest tickets, $15, are for lawn spots on the foul lines beyond the bases and in the outfield. About 2,000 people can sit on the lawn or stand elsewhere.

Sternberg put his team’s Disney visit in historical context. He said that the Green Bay Packers used to play some home games in Milwaukee, the Boston Celtics played in Hartford and the Brooklyn Dodgers occasionally played in Jersey City.

Outfielder Rocco Baldelli said: “We’re here to play the game wherever they tell us to play. It’s going to feel a little weird playing there. I played there for a bit in Double-A.”

When asked about small crowds, he said, “If there was 100 people there, we’d go out and play just as hard.”

Pitcher Scott Kazmir said that he liked the dimensions of the Disney field, which is 340 feet down the left-field line, because “it’s a pitcher’s park.” Shortstop Ben Zobrist, speaking of the intimate ambience, said, “I think it will be cool.” But the veteran infielder Ty Wigginton, thinking of Florida weather, said, “I just hope it ain’t too hot.”

Devil Rays Manager Joe Maddon said that adjusting to a different clubhouse “might be uncomfortable” for his home team. But he added that getting closer to new customers “is something different we’ve got to do” and that, as the team improves, “they’ll come from 200 miles away to see us play.”

Reggie Williams, the vice president of Disney Sports Attractions, said, “Major League Baseball is a screaming success in Central Florida” for spring training; the Atlanta Braves train in his park. But he conceded that Orlando’s N.B.A. team did not always sell out playoff games.

Williams said that he hoped the Devil Rays would play an annual series at Disney and that crowds of “7,500 to 8,000 people would be a phenomenal start” for this series.

Baldelli, referring to the team’s new ownership and management, said: “You can definitely see that these guys have a plan. They know you can’t just come in here and take a baseball franchise and turn it around in a week. They’re taking steps to build it from the ground up.”
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I think a new stadium will get built in the next 10 years, and it probably will get built on the Hillsborough side of the bay. Tampa is the "center" of the region, and people seem much more willing to drive to Tampa for things than to St. Pete.

The current stadium location will be redeveloped as city's new transit hub with supporting TOD (wishful thinking).
The dome idea - keep the game out of thunderstorms and the fans out of oppresive heat - is not a bad idea. It's just not an ideal outcome and it's too bad that now there might be consideration of moving the team. DT St Pete is a great place and the team makes it better. It's a good combination. A great ball park and better accessibility will make the experience better and is bound to attract more fans.
The Rays put out feelers on a new stadium this of season (it was in a short blurb on the cover of the St. Pete Times sports section in November) and while the general populous says HILLSBOROUGH for a location of a new stadium, the team (and some of the baseball fans) seem to insist that a new park will be built in St. Pete / Pinellas.

The Rays had questioned a select few about a new ballpark and the location. I think there were three locations cited -- the current location (read -- the Tropicana Field parking lot), the St. Petersburg waterfront, or Gateway.

I wrote about it on Boltsmag at the time.
Most of the games are in the evening so heat and thunderstorms aren't as big of a concern as you would think. We're not talking Wrigley field here with all the day time games.

He's right that baseball is just not the same inside, I would rather watch a game at Legends Field than the Trop.
Jonknee, how long have you lived in Tampa? Baseball is played mostly in the summertime, Tampa/St. Pete has frequent thunderstorms in the summertime - mostly late afternoon/evening. I've been to a few games at the dome when there are thunderstorms raging outside.
Because of the thunderstorms and the day games, it needs to be a retractable roof, but I went to the stinkin' Yankees game a few weeks back and it was an absolutley perfect evening - it was too bad we had to sit indoors.

On the location... I think it two locations are ideal:
1) Demolish Al Lang Field and place it on the St. Pete waterfront, alla PacBell (or whatever it is called now) in San Francisco.

2) Tear down the pink apartments on Nuccio Blvd. and build it there. One of the biggest problems with the Trop, is not only the stadium itself, but other than Ferg's, there is nothing to do, eat, or see. At the Nuccio location, you are on the doorstep of Ybor, the doorstep of Channelside, and have a picturesque view of downtown Tampa.

In my opinion, either location is ideal.
I'd like to see an open-air (on the sides) stadium with a retractable "cover" like Miller Park in Milwaukee. The sides are always open-air and the roof is just a covering that can be retracted when weather permits and closed when it's raining.

I'd like to see it built in Tampa in a showcase location. Perhaps in the Channelside District along Meridian where the big old eye-sore factory now sits. Imagine the views from your seat of the downtown/Channelside skylines...
Jonknee, how long have you lived in Tampa? Baseball is played mostly in the summertime, Tampa/St. Pete has frequent thunderstorms in the summertime - mostly late afternoon/evening. I've been to a few games at the dome when there are thunderstorms raging outside.
I'm a native. I guess I was going on the impression a storm at 3-4 in the afternoon doesn't matter much for a 7:30 game. They move through pretty quickly. A retractable roof would be nice, but it's hugely expensive. Miami gets by with open air.

If I had to choose between inside or outside I would go outside. If outside or retractable roof, I'd go retractable. There have been some really beautiful stadium designs lately so it would be interesting to see what they could do.
Well, let's see, the MArlins just got 60 million for a new retractable roof stadium from the State a week or two ago.

The governor is from Pinellas county . . .

What took them so long . . . I was expecting this talk immediately after the bill passed . . .

Oh, and it is retractable roof or nothing. While I prefer a Tampa location because I live in Tampa, it would be fine in downton St. PEte. It keeps them a bit quieter about all the "Tampa" in "Tampa Bay" crap.
I'd like to see the team move to Tampa. Although, to really attract fans, the team needs to start winning.
You know how bad the political situation in the area would get if the team relocated to Tampa?

Seriously, St. Pete has a huge inferiority complex as is with regards to area development. They might be the residential downtown now but things have been horrid for them in general over the years.

Anyway, lets start talking realistically here with a stadium -- I know a lot of people are saying "I'd like" with the locations and the designs but...

1) Miller Park is a retractable roof, closed-off venue. Safeco field in Seattle is the stadium with only a "parking garage" retractable roof that keeps the stadium largely open air.
2) A retractable roof stadium or a Major League ballpark will not fit on the footprint that Al Lang Field sits on at current.
3) A waterfront stadium is probably a hazard in the general area due to flooding / wind risks from tropical systems. It would be impossible to have any insurance on a ballpark on the waterfront (or just too damn costly) though this is a "public" venue run by a private company (the team).
4) Gateway and the Trop parking lot are the most appealing locations due to costs (I would think). Though Gateway is also more accessible than downtown St. Pete but at the same time -- there is nothing in gateway that would entertain people pre-game or post-game.
5) A Tampa location would be more appealing BUT costly due to acquisition costs for land (unless imminent domain is used). Too bad they have a plan for Central Park because that would be a great location.
Aren't the Rays locked into a long term lease with the City that would be insanely expensive to get out of?
Yup and Yup. Year 10 of a 30 year lease. That may be the reason why the team does not look at locations outside St. Pete for a new ballpark. Gateway -- some parts of it -- does fall under St. Pete Jursidiction.
Yeah the Rays are stuck in St. Pete until 2027. The Trop is it's own worst nightmare. Too much freakin' parking and for what? There are two public parking garages downtown and dozens of spots everywhere.

There is some light however. The Arts, 1010 Franklin and Mirrabella are all being developed 2 blocks from the stadium on Central. That part of town will be having a huge revival soon which will only benefit the Rays.
The St Pete Times got ahold of Sternberg and he explained himself somewhat:

The Devil Rays eventually will need a new stadium to replace Tropicana Field.

But they're not expecting one anytime soon.

Principal owner Stuart Sternberg on Tuesday clarified comments in a New York Times story, saying there is no deadline for a new ballpark and he will stick to his promise to never demand one. But he also said he doesn't think the Trop, which opened in 1990, can be the team's home for the remaining 20 years on its lease.

"I know we have to be here at least five years and I know we can't be here for 20,'' Sternberg said. "It does not have a shelf life of 20. ... Now that we've been in here a little bit longer and done all the improvements, we can really see the issues structurally within the building. It's not an option that it will last another 15 or 20 years.''

Sternberg and his group have invested about $18-million in stadium related upgrades over the last two years with the idea the team would be at the Trop for awhile. "We didn't do that to amortize it over a five-year period,'' he said.

Sternberg said the idea of a new stadium is not a priority issue, but more something he and his top officials talk about on occasion. With the recent - and thus far unsuccessful - efforts to get state funding for a new south Florida stadium for the Marlins, as well as the renovations to the Rays' new spring training home in Port Charlotte, he acknowledged that the subject has been more topical.

"We'll focus on it more as time goes by,'' Sternberg said. "Something of this magnitude, it really isn't anything I've spent a lot of time on. I have thought about it. Nothing can be done overnight. It's in the background. We know it's there. We chat about it - how and what.''

When Sternberg took over the team in October 2005 he pledged he would never demand a new stadium, and Tuesday he reiterated that promise. "Absolutely,'' he said. "I was extra clear a year and a half ago, and nothing has changed.''

He did say Tuesday that he might initiate the conversation, but that any effort would have to have the support of the Tampa Bay area and the state.

"I might present ideas to other people but it's in conjunction with the region,'' he said. "Given the scope of the project it's got to make economic sense and it's got to make civic sense. If we do our job right as an organization (in improving the franchise), I would expect that it would make it that much easier and that much clearer that it would be the right thing for the municipalities and the Devil Rays.''

The Rays are in their 10th season at the downtown St. Petersburg stadium.
Yup and Yup. Year 10 of a 30 year lease. That may be the reason why the team does not look at locations outside St. Pete for a new ballpark. Gateway -- some parts of it -- does fall under St. Pete Jursidiction.
If I were the Rays, I would only look at the Gateway area in Pinellas.
One thought about this - I have a group of friends in the Sarasota area and they have season tickets. It takes them the same time as it does for me from S. Tampa to get to the Trop. We leave at the same time and usually meet at Fergs within minutes. Bradenton is even closer.

For me personally I would love the stadium to be in my backyard but I do LOVE DT St. Pete. It is way ahead of Tampa as far as a more complete downtown. Can Tampa/Hills afford another stadium???...and how could St. Pete build another stadium when the costs of the current stadium are still on the books? More likely would be relocation to another area.

If it were to happen - Type: Houston's new Astro's stadium on the St. Pete waterfront. The old minor league park. UNREAL>
No stadium in on-deck circle
Rays owner Stuart Sternberg reiterates his pledge not to go to bat for a new ballpark.
By MARC TOPKIN AND AARON SHAROCKMAN
Published May 9, 2007

ST. PETERSBURG - The Devil Rays eventually will need a new stadium to replace Tropicana Field.

But they're not expecting one soon.

The team's principal owner, Stuart Sternberg, raised some eyebrows by telling the New York Times in Tuesday's editions that Tropicana Field, the domed stadium that cost nearly $220-million in taxpayer funds, will be obsolete in five years.

"Baseball does not feel right indoors," Sternberg told the paper for a story about the Rays moving three home games next week to Orlando.

Sternberg clarified his comments later in the day, telling the St. Petersburg Times that there is no deadline for a new ballpark and that he'll keep his promise never to demand one.

But Sternberg also said he doesn't think the Trop, which opened in 1990, can be the team's home for the 20 years remaining on its city lease.

"I know we have to be here at least five years, and I know we can't be here for 20," Sternberg said. "Now that we've been in here a little bit longer and done all the improvements, we can really see the issues structurally within the building.

"It's not an option that it will last another 15 or 20 years," he said.

City Council member Bill Foster said he was glad to see Sternberg backpedal.

"We all know it wasn't built like Wrigley Field. We're not going to have it forever," Foster said. "But with all due respect to Mr. Sternberg, I kind of doubt he's ever spent July and August in South Florida in the cheap seats."

The city has plenty of reasons to balk at the idea of a new stadium now.

The city still has $108-million in outstanding loans to pay for the construction of Tropicana Field, with the stadium not being paid off until 2025.

The city also holds a lease that ties the Rays to Tropicana Field through the 2027 season. It's unlikely the city would let the Rays break the lease if the team tried to leave the city.

And the city is staring down potentially huge mandated budget cuts by the State Legislature and a citizenry already feeling overtaxed.

"I think the Trop is a great facility right now. It's a great facility for baseball," Mayor Rick Baker said. But, "if Stu were to come up with a plan and it were going to be for a stadium in the city and it didn't cost any more city money, I would at least take a look at it."

When he took over the team in October 2005, Sternberg said that he would never demand a new stadium. He reiterated that promise Tuesday. "Absolutely," he said. "I was extra clear a year and a half ago, and nothing has changed."

The Rays have invested about $18-million in stadium-related upgrades over the last two years with the idea the team would be at Tropicana Field for a while, Sternberg said.

Talk about a new Rays stadium comes as efforts have so far failed to obtain any state funding for a new South Florida stadium for baseball's Florida Marlins. Also, the Rays are moving their spring training home to Port Charlotte.

The support of the Tampa Bay area and the state would be needed to replace the Trop, Sternberg said.

"Given the scope of the project, it's got to make economic sense and it's got to make civic sense," Sternberg said.

"If we do our job right as an organization (in improving the franchise), I would expect that it would make it that much easier and that much clearer that it would be the right thing for the municipalities and the Devil Rays."

[Last modified May 9, 2007, 00:05:41]

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/09/Tampabay/No_stadium_in_on_deck.shtml
If I were the Rays, I would only look at the Gateway area in Pinellas.
It may be equal-distant between points north, south and east, Jason, but you need more in a location than just office parks for a stadium that hosts games daily.

If this were a replacement for RJS -- sure, gateway is the way to go. But it's not. IT's a baseball stadium and suburban parks suck as the pre and post game entertainment zones are missing. It's why you see most new baseball parks built simply on adjacent land - the infrastructure is already built up near and around the park. Redevelopment opportunities are usually very promising.

I say a football stadium in that location would be fine because Football is a once-a-week gig (not nightly) and most people who are after pre and post game food or entertainment will simply tailgate in the parking lot of the stadium...
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