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I personally think the design looks like rather shit
Yes. Very 90s airport chic. That illuminated ceiling with cloud pattern is just hideous.

And yet another entrance to Penn that does not match the style of anything already there. Sigh, what a discordant mess it is.

Between that and the omnipresent blue and yellow everywhere, I wonder if Cuomo is taking a bit too personal an interest in too many of these projects.
 

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Yes... you're still required to compensate "just compensation" to the people/companies you're displacing. So... I guess only a... single $billion to get MSG out of the way?...
It's more complex. MSG is using a special exemption that has to be renewed to continue to operate.. or not.

The Dolans have previously snubbed all offers to move nearby, for instance to the USPS building at 28 & 9th. Put some pressure on them.

That said, a very attractive station can also be constructed with the arena in place, by just demolishing the theater that sits below. This, indeed, seems to be the plan so far.
 

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Yes. Very 90s airport chic. That illuminated ceiling with cloud pattern is just hideous.

And yet another entrance to Penn that does not match the style of anything already there. Sigh, what a discordant mess it is.

Between that and the omnipresent blue and yellow everywhere, I wonder if Cuomo is taking a bit too personal an interest in too many of these projects.

Yes, he keeps stamping his garish 'blue and yellow' every where, from busses to license plates and now LIRR concourse. It's not a pretty color combo, imo

I don't mind it on the new subway cars, however.
 

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I can see what you mean with it seeming like a wasted expenditure that could be better spent on something grander if 2Penn and/or MSG was out of the way.

But I disagree that doubling the width and height, with modern, brighter finishes, and expansive sight lines to the platforms won't markedly change the dingy rat hole feeling that exists there now (solve it? definitely not, not even close....noticeably improve what's there now? yes)(especially with the potential added capacity of Moynihan)








Cuomo is so tacky and this is so hideous. These renders look like the mall I used to frequent in Tulsa, not the premier train station of the world's premier city.

Seriously, we have to settle for 18 foot ceilings? That's the 50 year wait? That's how we repent and put into the past the maiming of NYC by destroying Penn Station? With 18 foot ceilings and a sliver of light reaching the concourse?

These renders are a joke. They look like lipstick on a third world train station. And that's because they are.

Destroy Madison Square Garden at all costs and rebuild Penn. The solution is clear as day.
 

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Largest floor at Vornado’s Farley Building could go to Japanese ad firm

Dentsu Americas is eyeing the fourth floor of the U.S. Postal Service building at 390 Ninth Avenue, which spans almost 300,000 square feet, according to the New York Post.

[...]

Tech companies including Apple and Facebook have toured the building as well, and Vornado has long hoped to bring Amazon to the top floor—although the online retailer is also talking to Brookfield Properties about taking space at One and/or Two Manhattan West.
 

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Hi. This is a serious question: does anyone know for real why that monstrosity that replaced the old Penn Station gem is still there?? A lot more money can be made by replacing it with something more modern--with or without reconstructing any or most of the old station. So, why is it sitting there "pretty" and no one is talking about pulling it down? Instead, all that money and attention going to mangling the old Post Office!!!!
 

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Hi. This is a serious question: does anyone know for real why that monstrosity that replaced the old Penn Station gem is still there?? A lot more money can be made by replacing it with something more modern--with or without reconstructing any or most of the old station. So, why is it sitting there "pretty" and no one is talking about pulling it down? Instead, all that money and attention going to mangling the old Post Office!!!!
There is a massive push to force MSG to move but its owners are extremely stubborn. They just put over $1 Billion into renovating it in 2011-2013 so they are even more determined to stay to get their money's-worth out of that, not to mention the massive wealth of both city and suburban transit right underneath of them.

There is also a 29 story office tower, which although squat and rather useless compared with the massive new towers that are going up and rather outdated, it contains a whopping 1,619,000 square feet of office space, about the same as the Citigroup Center or slightly less than the Manhattan West tower on the other side of the Farley Post Office! A good proposal for something to replace Penn Station would ideally have its main entrance on the East side where that office building sits so they would have to cut through it as some proposals show or to completely remove it as the ideal reconstruction would do.

Lastly, there is the issue of logistics to even consider a massive rebuilding project. Penn Station was designed to handle 200,000 passengers a day when railroad ridership was plummeting. Today it handles about 600,000 to 650,000 riders, a number that is rapidly growing as secondary centers on Long Island and in New Jersey continue to grow rapidly around train stations. Any rebuilding project would mean cut off corridors and limited access when it is already under Crush Conditions for most of Rush Hour. Moynihan Station in the Farley Post Office, if anything, will provide capacity relief until a larger permanent solution is found for the main block of the station. Same with these rather temporary "Lipstick on a Pig" fixes. Once they are done, the new wide entrances and alternate routes will allow for some of the 1963 station to be closed for major construction work. Hopefully by then, the city and state and various business and development organizations (Municipal Art Society, Regional Plan Association, etc) will get serious about forcing MSG to move when their 10 year lease renewal expires around 2023.
 

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Discussion Starter #376
There is a massive push to force MSG to move but its owners are extremely stubborn. They just put over $1 Billion into renovating it in 2011-2013 so they are even more determined to stay to get their money's-worth out of that, not to mention the massive wealth of both city and suburban transit right underneath of them.

There is also a 29 story office tower, which although squat and rather useless compared with the massive new towers that are going up and rather outdated, it contains a whopping 1,619,000 square feet of office space, about the same as the Citigroup Center or slightly less than the Manhattan West tower on the other side of the Farley Post Office! A good proposal for something to replace Penn Station would ideally have its main entrance on the East side where that office building sits so they would have to cut through it as some proposals show or to completely remove it as the ideal reconstruction would do.

Lastly, there is the issue of logistics to even consider a massive rebuilding project. Penn Station was designed to handle 200,000 passengers a day when railroad ridership was plummeting. Today it handles about 600,000 to 650,000 riders, a number that is rapidly growing as secondary centers on Long Island and in New Jersey continue to grow rapidly around train stations. Any rebuilding project would mean cut off corridors and limited access when it is already under Crush Conditions for most of Rush Hour. Moynihan Station in the Farley Post Office, if anything, will provide capacity relief until a larger permanent solution is found for the main block of the station. Same with these rather temporary "Lipstick on a Pig" fixes. Once they are done, the new wide entrances and alternate routes will allow for some of the 1963 station to be closed for major construction work. Hopefully by then, the city and state and various business and development organizations (Municipal Art Society, Regional Plan Association, etc) will get serious about forcing MSG to move when their 10 year lease renewal expires around 2023.
They've gotta also buy the block south of Penn Station to do a proper full capacity expansion of the complex as well.
 

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They've gotta also buy the block south of Penn Station to do a proper full capacity expansion of the complex as well.
Penn Station South is such a terrible idea.

There are serious alternatives that do not require the massive cost of razing an entire city block and result in far better service than yet more terminus tracks, notably through running.
 

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There is a massive push to force MSG to move but its owners are extremely stubborn. They just put over $1 Billion into renovating it in 2011-2013 so they are even more determined to stay to get their money's-worth out of that, not to mention the massive wealth of both city and suburban transit right underneath of them.

There is also a 29 story office tower, which although squat and rather useless compared with the massive new towers that are going up and rather outdated, it contains a whopping 1,619,000 square feet of office space, about the same as the Citigroup Center or slightly less than the Manhattan West tower on the other side of the Farley Post Office! A good proposal for something to replace Penn Station would ideally have its main entrance on the East side where that office building sits so they would have to cut through it as some proposals show or to completely remove it as the ideal reconstruction would do.

Lastly, there is the issue of logistics to even consider a massive rebuilding project. Penn Station was designed to handle 200,000 passengers a day when railroad ridership was plummeting. Today it handles about 600,000 to 650,000 riders, a number that is rapidly growing as secondary centers on Long Island and in New Jersey continue to grow rapidly around train stations. Any rebuilding project would mean cut off corridors and limited access when it is already under Crush Conditions for most of Rush Hour. Moynihan Station in the Farley Post Office, if anything, will provide capacity relief until a larger permanent solution is found for the main block of the station. Same with these rather temporary "Lipstick on a Pig" fixes. Once they are done, the new wide entrances and alternate routes will allow for some of the 1963 station to be closed for major construction work. Hopefully by then, the city and state and various business and development organizations (Municipal Art Society, Regional Plan Association, etc) will get serious about forcing MSG to move when their 10 year lease renewal expires around 2023.
Can't the city/state eminent domain MSG?
 

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Can't the city/state eminent domain MSG?
No they cannot, since MSG owns the air rights above NYC. Also MSG has the money to fight any push to take what's theirs.

Really the only argument anyone has against MSG on here is it's "Ugly". So what?

As for capacity issues there are plenty of solutions without touching The Garden. Once the east side access is complete at Grand Central Long Islanders will have 2 stations they can commute too. Also The Post Office building will open up plenty of more room for commuters.

Lastly, it makes no sense to tear down a building just to put back something that was razed 1/2 a century ago when there is a perfect solution right across the street.
 

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I am still for razing MSG to replace it with NYCs first megatall. Imagine you are in the city for the first time, you step out of the Moynihan station and gaze up a megatall.
 
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