SkyscraperCity banner

241 - 260 of 544 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Thanks for the feedback Chris. It would seem that it's near the B&Q at the top of Shields Road or next to Brough Park greyhound track. There's a lot of scrubby undeveloped brownfield land there which could have contained a stadium.

The idea that there are foundations in there for a stadium is interesting - I doubt it, but it's an interesting rumour. Stranger things have happened!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,457 Posts
the leazes park proposals were amazing and im still a bit disappointed it never happened, even though i do like the current SJP. i remember the images posted on the door of our geography classroom in school. from what i recall the vast majority of people i knew were in favour. some of the opposition was a bit hysterical, and i seem to remember newcastle councillors who held season tickets being barred from deciding on this case, which to me was grossly unfair. as for other sites, gateshead stadium was considered, and maybe somewhere near the metro centre? also, newburn was another site looked, the 'lemington gut' area now a business park and HQ of one north east.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,489 Posts
would have been a fantastic site built on lets face it essentialy waste ground which is only used as a short cut by students and grazing for a few dozen cows, but the plans were scuppered by the small minded liberal blue rinse brigade (you know who you are),and shame on them for ruining a potentially very exciting "regeneration" of a VERY shabby and underused area.
I'm so glad these plans did not happen. It's not a "VERY shabby and underused area", it's one of the city's best assets! Newcastle has bags and bags of real 'waste' brownfield land, of which many sites could easily accommodate a new stadium. The presence of such a sizable green wedge extending from the edge of the city centre makes Newcastle really quite unique. I agree that these green spaces could perhaps be more extensively used, but as green spaces NOT development sites! I also think the use of these fields for cattle is actually really good for the city as well, so many people living in cities have no connection to or knowledge of agriculture whatsoever, this is one way of helping educate people. I'd actually like this to be capitalised on more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Haven't you noticed a much larger green space about 200 yards to the north east of castle leazes? plenty room there for dog walkers and cows.I totally dissagree that castle leazes is not shabby it's extremely shabby and not needed at all,while i love leazes park now i think these plans would have really transformed that area and made the park a proper focal point for the city.
Yes Newcastle is very lucky indeed to have so much green space but i for one would not have mourned the loss of probably the worst bit we have.i'm sure nobody would complain if they wanted to extend the park into castle leazes because we all know what a state it is in.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
21,971 Posts
Discussion Starter #246

Haven't you noticed a much larger green space about 200 yards to the north east of castle leazes?


Plenty room there for dog walkers and cows. I totally dissagree that castle leazes is not shabby it's extremely shabby and not needed at all,while i love leazes park now i think these plans would have really transformed that area and made the park a proper focal point for the city. Yes Newcastle is very lucky indeed to have so much green space but i for one would not have mourned the loss of probably the worst bit we have.i'm sure nobody would complain if they wanted to extend the park into castle leazes because we all know what a state it is in.

Do you mean HUNTERS MOOR?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,714 Posts
the leazes park proposals were amazing and im still a bit disappointed it never happened, even though i do like the current SJP. i remember the images posted on the door of our geography classroom in school. from what i recall the vast majority of people i knew were in favour. some of the opposition was a bit hysterical, and i seem to remember newcastle councillors who held season tickets being barred from deciding on this case, which to me was grossly unfair. as for other sites, gateshead stadium was considered, and maybe somewhere near the metro centre? also, newburn was another site looked, the 'lemington gut' area now a business park and HQ of one north east.
Johnny, Hall claimed that the club had to relocate because SJP "could not be expanded". This was a lie to get a more advantageous greenfield site. Other sites were considered in a hugely biased appraisal by the club's pals on the council, which took as read NUFC's lie about the expandability or otherwise of SJP.

The Freemen agreed with the stadium plan because they saw the opportunity to line their pockets. Here are a few facts:

1 The RVI (which when the plan was submitted was an independent organisation) objected to the plan because of its damaging effect on the hospital and the loss of a great asset for its recuperating patients.

2. The RVI was then merged with the General and Freeman to form a united trust.

3. The chairman of the united trust was the former Freeman Hospital chairman, Len (now Sir Len) Fenwick.

4. Fenwick was, and is, chairman of the Stewards Committee of the Freemen.

5. Very shortly after Fenwick became chairman of the united hospital trust, the objection to the plan was withdrawn.

All nice and above board, eh?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
21,971 Posts
Discussion Starter #248
I remember a newspaper article that listed, with photos, all of these potential ('red herring') sites.

Now, all I have to do is find it!!

Unfortunately, I couldn't find the newspaper article I was looking for, that listed all the sites that were said to have been considered.

I remember the 'headline' in the paper was "Howay the Lads to Gateshead!" (or something like that).

Anyway, I DID find this interesting article about a possible (but "unlikely") new site to build a new NUFC Stadium.

The proposals by the club (that we are currently discussing) are from June 1997, and the below plans are from the same era (December 1996) . .




.
 

·
Architect
Joined
·
3,725 Posts
Steady there Wilf, he shouldn't throw comments around like "small minded", but we all type the occasional daftly worded message - I think my ratio is roughly one in two... Although even I take umbrage at the use of the word "liberal" as an insult!

To be honest, I'd hate to see Leazes Park damaged as it's a beautiful park. Having said that, if a new stadium was almost entirely on Castle Leazes Moor (although I accept that this wasn't the case with that particular proposal), I really wouldn't object too strongly, especially if St James' was replaced with something pretty special. Although I genuinely value the Town Moor (and linked spaces and moors) I do think the Freemen are too strict in how it's used. I'm certainly not saying we should build on much of it - love or loathe football, a new stadium would be a pretty special exception - but it should certainly have the grass cut in areas, maybe have some tree planting, some additional allotments maybe. That area is for the use of the people, yet there's no attempt to make it usable.

Anyway, I'm off subject a bit, but just go easy on Brybat - I could be wrong, but I don't think he meant to much by his comments. Or at least I hope he didn't...
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
21,971 Posts
Discussion Starter #251
Steady there Wilf, he shouldn't throw comments around like "small minded", but we all type the occasional daftly worded message - I think my ratio is roughly one in two... Although even I take umbrage at the use of the word "liberal" as an insult!

To be honest, I'd hate to see Leazes Park damaged as it's a beautiful park. Having said that, if a new stadium was almost entirely on Castle Leazes Moor (although I accept that this wasn't the case with that particular proposal), I really wouldn't object too strongly, especially if St James' was replaced with something pretty special. Although I genuinely value the Town Moor (and linked spaces and moors) I do think the Freemen are too strict in how it's used. I'm certainly not saying we should build on much of it - love or loathe football, a new stadium would be a pretty special exception - but it should certainly have the grass cut in areas, maybe have some tree planting, some additional allotments maybe. That area is for the use of the people, yet there's no attempt to make it usable.

Anyway, I'm off subject a bit, but just go easy on Brybat - I could be wrong, but I don't think he meant to much by his comments. Or at least I hope he didn't...
Hi guys, I agree, lets 'chill' a little bit here!!

. . . so - what do you think of those (quite MAD, I thought) plans I have just put up for a riverside stadium in Gateshead?

Doo-lally, or what!!!??
 

·
The Legend
Joined
·
13,111 Posts
Ok I'm going to say this here and I'm going to say it again in the Skybar, but I will not say it again.

No one on here will call anyone any names or insinuate any names anywhere within the Newcastle pat of the NE Sub-Forum or indeed the NE Sub-Forum. We allow swearing (within means) on here but name calling or any form of bullying will not be tolerated on here at all. :)
 

·
Architect
Joined
·
3,725 Posts
As for that Gateshead-based stadium, it looks like someone got hold of an early version of AutoCAD and thought they'd have a laugh with it! Admittedly it'd be sad to have NUFC outside of the city of Newcastle, but Gateshead is hardly far and it might be quite cool to see fans streaming over the bridges to get there...

I can't really say what I think of the design though, it looks pretty rough there but 3D modelling packages were pretty poor in those days and I'm guessing it's little more than a concept. It has a vaguely cathedral-like look to it, which if done right could be pretty interesting.

Imagine a football stadium with spires and gargoyles! If it'd fit anywhere, it'd be Newcastle...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,457 Posts
you know what, i think if sjp was completely removed and turned into a park, with a new stadium built to the north, it would, on balance, make for a better. more accessible public area. parkland both sides of leazes terrace, and abutting strawberry place (which would hopefully have buildings lining it) would drag the park into the city centre more and surround it with more urbanity. even though leazes is close to the city centre, due to the stadium it kind of feels a little cut off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
613 Posts
I'd be intrigued to know where the potential site was in Byker. Any more info Chris?

It's not T Dan Smith's 'City Stadium' is it? (though I know that's nowhere near Byker as it's above the Ouseburn Culvert, so apologies if that's a silly question).

Coincidentally, where I live in Heaton is pretty close to one of the original football grounds of the two clubs that made up Newcastle United. Newcastle East End's ground was opposite the Chillingham Arms on Chilli Road i.e. the site that's now occupied by some horrible Persimmon Homes flats.
I thought it was a little bit further north than that, lying closer to the corner of Chillingham Rd. and what is now Rothbury Terrace? At least, the maps of the time denote a large cricket field at that site and I presume that's where NEE ended up playing. The Chillingham Garden Village site was being used for railway works at that time IIRC (not that I was there, of course).

Addendum: the map of the period 1894-99 (just after NEE left the area) shows a rectangular, distinctly football pitch shaped plot of land directly to the south of the cricket ground cited above. This (if it is the site in question) would place NEE's ground at what is now Marleen Court, and what was, for much of the C20, a cement factory.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,714 Posts
I'd like to apologise to everyone for my drunken rant last night.

I do have history with this as I was closely involved with the campaign against the stadium and worked with some of the best and most honourable people I have ever met and to describe them as 'blue rinse', 'hysteriocal' or whatever is extremely galling. Also I believed and believe that the project was far from a philanthropic enterprise but was rather a rather cynical attempt at a land grab by a greedy, megalomaniacal and businessman supported by some rather dodgy associates on the council and with the Freemen. Hall had already tried to get hold of Leazes Park to build a city arena on it, and failed. (And it is a measure of the kind of people the Halls are that when it was learned that the Tyne and Wear Development Corporation started plans for what became the Arena, a private investigator was paid by - shall I say, associates - to bug the house of the TWDC Chairman Alistair Balls).

The plan as presented here had some merits. I think the actual stadium design by Fred Tulip was excellent; and the opening up of the west side of Leazes Terrace would have been a benefit. But the losses would have greatly outweighed any gains. Leazes Park could not have survived as a park in any meaningful sense: it would just have become a forecourt to the stadium. Ditto the Castle Leazes. The integrity of that part of the Moor would have been lost; the built up area of the city would in effect have taken a huge bite out of the Moor. Spital Tongues would have lost its status as a true village - I think it must be unique in the UK - an urban village that is surrounded by open land, yet within a conurbation.

All this was to be achieved by chicanery. Town Moor legislation says that developments can only be for recreation - but the meaning was popular sport and recreation, not that branch of the entertainment industry which professional football has become. The club had strong links with certain powerful councillors and the scheme was intended for fast-tracking. The original press coverage was hugely biased in favour of the plans, as if the Chronicle and Journal (which were again in a close and mutually beneficial relationship with NUFC) could not envisage that anyuone might object to what Sir John might propose. This is, I would add, a great disadvantage of Tyneside being the largest 'single club' city in the country. I cannot imagine the press in Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, Nottingham or Glasgow rolling over so supinely to favour the interests of a foorball club.

And their campaign was accompanied by a process of lies and distortions. All the people opposed to the scheme were incomers, were NIMBYs, hated the club, were snobs, knew nothing of Newcastle, collected petition signatures outside Roker Park, etc etc. L:eazes Park was a dog turd, druggie needle littered wasteground. Castle Leazes wasn't the Moor anyway. There was no alternative, etc etc, etc. All of it untrue. So when the Leazes Park businmess came up again last night it just pushed the red button for me. I'm sorry. I said things I shouldn't have. But the plan was wrong and the city is better for it having been defeated.
 

·
Architect
Joined
·
3,725 Posts
Don't worry Wilf - we've all (well, I have anyway) had a quick look at the site after a few pints just before bed and then decided to post something - you're one of the most level-headed posters on here (IMHO) so from my point of view anyway, just forget about it.

Having never even visited Newcastle at the time of the stadium suggestions I've no idea about the political background to it all, but I really wouldn't doubt that those involved were doing it primarily for profit. And again, I'd have hated to see Leazes Park destroyed, but thankfully that didn't happen.

Either way, we've got an amplely (sp?) massive stadium, a beautiful park and a small moor full of cows for the rahs of Castle Leazes halls to look at and feel nostalgic about Daddy's estate back in the Home Counties. Everyone's a winner!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
I wouldn't worry about your "drunken rant" Wilf,it gave me a good laugh this morning (i've been called worse).
It's all about opinions and ours differ but thats fair enough.
speaking of spittal tongues (my mam and dad live there) does anyone know whats planned for the old Belle Grove pub?,
Real shame, it was my favourite pub a couple of years ago had some great times there.
 
241 - 260 of 544 Posts
Top