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Actually, there are two interesting things about the plan:

1 - the Ouseburn Dock proposal.

2 - The map used as a background for the proposal. It shows each existing plot of land in much greater detail that the OS plans ever got to at that time - and each plot has a number. Each of the numbered land holdings covered by the dock are listed by owner, occupier and occupation in an accompanying ledger which is also available at the archives. I assume this ledger was prepared as a precursor to the Victorian version of a Compulsory Purchase Order. A massive amount of detail about approx 500 sites in the Ouseburn circa 1850.

I must admit, I was very impressed.
 

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In the aeroplane over B1
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Does anyone have any information regarding a ship canal proposal from Solway to Tyne?

I remember it being referred to in the Chronicle in the late '90s. It would have meant the destruction of the Tyne and High Level bridges apparently.
 

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The Legend
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Does anyone have any information regarding a ship canal proposal from Solway to Tyne?

I remember it being referred to in the Chronicle in the late '90s. It would have meant the destruction of the Tyne and High Level bridges apparently.
There is this; http://www.geog.port.ac.uk/webmap/thelakes/html/topics/canalf.htm which was planned in 1785.

Further research shows that it was scrapped in 1810 due to the outbreak of war between England and France.
 

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Discussion Starter #308 (Edited)
Newcastle United FC : New Stadium Plans.
No. 3 - Various Proposals 1921 to 1997 . . .


This is the THIRD in the series on Newcastle United's "Newcastle as it might have been" proposals. The first two in the series covered (in detail) the 1997 proposals (Part One) and the 1972 Proposals (Part Two).

This third (and final) part, covers "all the other plans" that were proposed (but did NOT happen) starting in 1921 (29 years after Newcastle "United" first played at St James' Park) right up until 1997.

So, off we go . . .


1 - 1921.

Some reports state these plans come from '1929', but the majority state 1921. The first item (below) is a newspaper article from the Evening Chronicle of September 8th 1982, and actually (also) contains some details of some 'later' plans for the ground, from 1967. These plans are covered in detail later in this post . .






2 - 1964.

T Dan Smith and Newcastle City Council, were the instigators of this next set of proposals. His vision was of a "multi-sports complex', with Newcastle United Football Club at its centre. The club never really bought into this idea, and the below designs (though sometimes said to be the multi-sports' plans) were produced at the clubs behest in 1964, ignoring the councils 'multi-sports' ideas . .




3 - 1967.

Only a few years later in 1967, the 'multi-sports' idea again raised its head. A £2.6M scheme was devised that would have provided a football ground with a capacity of 63,000 spectators. The cost (though to be shared between the club, the City and the University) was seen by the club as too high, and amid disputes and talk of the club re-locating to Gosforth Park, the whole thing fell through . .






4 - 1972.

Full details of the "1972" proposals, were given in PART TWO of this series.

See the below post . .


POST 280 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=53665235&postcount=280


5 - 1976.

The 1972 proposals (as shown on the above post 280) eventually came to nothing, apart from the construction of the 'East Stand' in 1973. In 1976 it was again proposed to 'extend the East Stand' around the corner into the (then) Leazes End. The old Leazes End roof and the back part of the standing area ('kop') were demolished to facilitate the below plans. Despite the demolition, none of the below extension was ever built . .




6 - 1989.

These are the first set of plans prepared by John Hall, as part of his plans to 'take over' the club. He produced three different options in 1989 . .






The next diagram (below) appears to be 'a slightly different version' of the cross-section in Option Three (as shown above) but now sporting the Magpie Group Logo (top centre) . .




7 - 1990.

In the face of John Halls re-development plans, the old Gordon McKeag led board (still very much in control of the club at that point) came up with their own SJP re-development proposals. Their plans (shown below) had an estimated cost of £16.5M and a planned capacity of 40,000 - yet they knew that they couldn't afford it! The planned 'Share Issue' had flopped, but they still published their plans . .




8 - 1991.

While John Hall (Magpie Group) and Gordon McKeag (the old Board) vied with eachother to produce re-development plans for the ground, the City Council suddenly got involved again, with some VERY expensive and dramatic proposals, costing in the region of £100M and eating into part of Leazes Park. City Architect, Trevor Skemptons design was in fact a 'giant amphitheatre', incorporating a shopping mall, office complex, car parking and a theatre.

A huge 'hydraulic' sliding screen would separate the football ground area from the theatre area at the Leazes End (projecting outwards into Leazes Park) producing a flexible football ground capacity of between 30,000 and 80,000 and 'indoor' concerts, stage plays and sports like 'boxing' would have an audience of as low as 20,000.

A spectacular and expensive (but perhaps impractical) addition to the list of proposed SJP developments . .






9 - 1996.

Designed by architect Michael Gilfillan, this proposal shows a design for a new ground for NUFC away from St James' Park, and (more importantly) on the 'Gateshead' side of the river. These plans are likely to have been part of the overall tactics by the club to get the City Council on their side for their imminent (1997) proposals to build a new stadium on Castle Leazes Moor . .




10 - 1997.

Full details of the "1997" proposals, were given in PART ONE of this series.

See the below two posts . .


POST 218 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=53090947&postcount=218

POST 272 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=53470089&postcount=272



So - There we have it . . . TEN different sets of Newcastle United Stadium Plans, that NEVER happened!

I wonder if the above is now the "definitive" collection of ALL of the 'abandoned proposals' for major revamps of SJP or moves to new grounds, that NUFC have ever made over the years?

It may well be . . . UNLESS you know different??


I hope you find the above ten proposals interesting. I have been waiting to publish this third post of dramatic plans and proposals for Newcastle United's ground (that did not happen) until I could do so as part of a CELEBRATION of our promotion back to the Premier League.

That is why I posted this on 5th April 2010 !!!


.
 

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Newcastle United FC : New Stadium Plans.
No. 3 - Various Proposals 1921 to 1997 . . .


This is the THIRD in the series on Newcastle United's "Newcastle as it might have been" proposals. The first two in the series covered (in detail) the 1997 proposals (Part One) and the 1972 Proposals (Part Two).

This third (and final) part, covers "all the other plans" that were proposed (but did NOT happen) starting in 1921 (29 years after Newcastle "United" first played at St James' Park) right up until 1997.

So, off we go . . .


1 - 1921.

Some reports state these plans come from '1929', but the majority state 1921. The first item (below) is a newspaper article from the Evening Chronicle of September 8th 1982, and actually (also) contains some details of some 'later' plans for the ground, from 1967. These plans are covered in detail later in this post . .






2 - 1964.

T Dan Smith and Newcastle City Council, were the instigators of this next set of proposals. His vision was of a "multi-sports complex', with Newcastle United Football Club at its centre. The club never really bought into this idea, and the below designs (though sometimes said to be the multi-sports' plans) were produced at the clubs behest in 1964, ignoring the councils 'multi-sports' ideas . .




3 - 1967.

Only a few years later in 1967, the 'multi-sports' idea again raised its head. A £2.6M scheme was devised that would have provided a football ground with a capacity of 63,000 spectators. The cost (though to be shared between the club, the City and the University) was seen by the club as too high, and amid disputes and talk of the club re-locating to Gosforth Park, the whole thing fell through . .






4 - 1972.

Full details of the "1972" proposals, were given in PART TWO of this series.

See the below post . .


POST 280 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=53665235&postcount=280


5 - 1976.

The 1972 proposals (as shown on the above post 280) eventually came to nothing, apart from the construction of the 'East Stand' in 1973. In 1976 it was again proposed to 'extend the East Stand' around the corner into the (then) Leazes End. The old Leazes End roof and the back part of the standing area ('kop') were demolished to facilitate the below plans. Despite the demolition, none of the below extension was ever built . .




6 - 1989.

These are the first set of plans prepared by John Hall, as part of his plans to 'take over' the club. He produced three different options in 1989 . .






The next diagram (below) appears to be 'a slightly different version' of the cross-section in Option Three (as shown above) but now sporting the Magpie Group Logo (top centre) . .




7 - 1990.

In the face of John Halls re-development plans, the old Gordon McKeag led board (still very much in control of the club at that point) came up with their own SJP re-development proposals. Their plans (shown below) had an estimated cost of £16.5M and a planned capacity of 40,000 - yet they knew that they couldn't afford it! The planned 'Share Issue' had flopped, but they still published their plans . .




8 - 1991.

While John Hall (Magpie Group) and Gordon McKeag (the old Board) vied with eachother to produce re-development plans for the ground, the City Council suddenly got involved again, with some VERY expensive and dramatic proposals, costing in the region of £100M and eating into part of Leazes Park. City Architect, Trevor Skemptons design was in fact a 'giant amphitheatre', incorporating a shopping mall, office complex, car parking and a theatre.

A huge 'hydraulic' sliding screen would separate the football ground area from the theatre area at the Leazes End (projecting outwards into Leazes Park) producing a flexible football ground capacity of between 30,000 and 80,000 and 'indoor' concerts, stage plays and sports like 'boxing' would have an audience of as low as 20,000.

A spectacular and expensive (but perhaps impractical) addition to the list of proposed SJP developments . .






9 - 1996.

Designed by architect Michael Gilfillan, this proposal shows a design for a new ground for NUFC away from St James' Park, and (more importantly) on the 'Gateshead' side of the river. These plans are likely to have been part of the overall tactics by the club to get the City Council on their side for their imminent (1997) proposals to build a new stadium on Castle Leazes Moor . .




10 - 1997.

Full details of the "1997" proposals, were given in PART ONE of this series.

See the below two posts . .


POST 218 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=53090947&postcount=218

POST 272 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=53470089&postcount=272



So - There we have it . . . TEN different sets of Newcastle United Stadium Plans, that NEVER happened!

I wonder if the above is now the "definitive" collection of ALL of the 'abandoned proposals' for major revamps of SJP or moves to new grounds, that NUFC have ever made over the years?

It may well be . . . UNLESS you know different??


I hope you find the above ten proposals interesting. I have been waiting to publish this third post of dramatic plans and proposals for Newcastle United's ground (that did not happen) until I could do so as part of a CELEBRATION of our promotion back to the Premier League.

That is why I posted this on 5th April 2010 !!!


.

I never knew there had been so many different plans for the ground.

Excellent work, thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #310
^^^^

Thanks.

It was a bit of a 'labour of love' for me. As a lifelong supporter of Newcastle United, I have accumulated a lot of information about the goings on there (on and off the field) over the years.

As I put this third post together though, even I was surprised that there was such a large number of plans to move or develop the ground (that reached the 'detail' stage) that never came to anything.

If asked before this, I would have probably said "four or five", I certainly never realised there were the TEN, listed above!

Indeed, I am seriously (still) expecting people on here to tell me about 'other failed plans' that I have NOT included!!!

That wouldn't surprise me at all . .
 

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Discussion Starter #311
American-style Leisure Park for Manors area.
that never happened . . .



The above comes direct from the "General Knowledge" thread, posts 548 to 567.

It was one of Joe Robertsons grand plans - that did not come to fruition.

It could actually have been interesting (though I didn't think it a great idea at the time, and still don't) simply because it was being designed as 'competition' for Metroland at the MetroCentre . . . which (as we know) has itself now closed down!
 

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Discussion Starter #313 (Edited)
^^^^

I remember I really fancied this plan at the time.

I thought that this group might do a better job than Tyne Tees TV were doing. I think "The Tube" had just finished, and I was rather disappointed about that!

Also, one of my biggest and most hated "GAP sites" at the time was the former Manors Goods Yard and Manors Station area . . . as is shown in the newspaper article above, and in the photo below . . .



They had always been like that in my lifetime (certainly the 'Goods Yard' area had) and this represented a GREAT opportunity to get rid of (at least part of) these awful areas!

Not to be though, and Tyne Tees retained the franchise.

It's a GREAT shame that we don't have independent ITV stations now . . . all we have is ITV.

A major loss, in my opinion.

Perhaps it is a good job these large TV studios were not built though, as we would never have had Warners Cinemas :), or perhaps even (South of New Bridge Street) the Technopole :eek:hno: . . . but also we probably would never have got the excellent Northumbria University City Campus East.



.
 

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Urban Environmentalist
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^^^^
Perhaps it is a good job these large TV studios were not built though, as we would never have had Warners Cinemas :), or perhaps even (South of New Bridge Street) the Technopole :eek:hno: . . . but also we probably would never have got the excellent Northumbria University City Campus East.
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Its not beyond the imagination that the technopole will disappear in the not too distant future IMHO. I bet nobody expected Warners to be so temporary. What I have definately noticed is how this area of the city, once forgotten and seemingly in terminal decline, is now starting to thrive. The area around Stepney Lane have been developed in quite a dense way, Shieldfield is coming along leaps and bounds, the Ouseburn is a stones throw, and of course last but not least City Campus East is a huge boon for the area.

Surely a low density development like the technopole is a just a tragic waste of valuable space now. I would love to see it redeveloped as a mixed use scheme, like a mini urban village. It would have its own metro, rail and motorway link so I think you could afford something dense... maybe even a tower (dare I say such a thing... though I often forget this is SkyScraper City!)
 

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I think this site is absolutely perfect for a very high density scheme. It's just about the most accessible (by all modes of transport) area that's ripe for development in the city at the moment. The Technopole is a complete waste of such valuable land.
 

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Discussion Starter #316
.
OK then, after two 'Newcastle as it might have been' proposals for the Manors area (Joe Robertsons American Leisure Park, then the Northumbria TV Studios) we move a bit further south, to just opposite the Central Station entrance, for the next one . . .

The St Mary's Cathedral "Piazza" proposals, from 1979.





Now, in case anyone doesn't think the above is very different from what we have now, then have a look at the below photograph of what that view of our Roman Catholic Cathedral was like, at the time these proposals were made . .



For most of its life, the "back view" of the cathedral (as seen from Central Station in the above photo) was simply a very high 'black' unbroken wall, with no entrance through it whatsoever. The cathedral and grounds were completely impenetrable, from the Central Station side. In fact (as the above photo also shows) the entire cathedral (not just the back wall) was a dirty black colour, which is how it remained until it was all cleaned and the back entrance opened up, in fairly recent times.

Here is the full newspaper article, detailing the 'piazza' proposals, which was SO radically different from what was there then. The article is from the Evening Chronicle, Friday March 23rd 1979 . .




Finally, here is what that same view (from the 'piazza' proposals and from that 'old black' photo above) looks like NOW . . .


 

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I think what we have here now is the best solution. I'm glad the wall is not there anymore and that there's now a public space instead, but I also think it's better without the extension that was proposed in the newspaper article above. The extension with the book shop and cafe on the other side which is there now is more tasteful in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #318
I think I agree Andrew, the cleaned up cathedral and the 'Cardinal Basil Hume' statue, really create an excellent impression, at what is often an entry point to our City for many visitors.

At the time though, I really hoped those 1979 plans would go ahead (they still would have looked very good today) as the way the cathedral looked then, was not (to me) very impressive at all!

On balance though, what we have now has turned out to be a very good option.
 

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Interesting to note that the piazza option was "all steps" - no notions of disability access, even as recently as 1979! How times change, and in the case of access for all, much for the better (I'm presuming there is a ramp to Cardinal Bas round the side, behind the red minicab).
 

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King of Bernicia
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Today for some reason I was broswing wikipedia and ended up on their page on the metro. I noticed in a extensions section this little bit:

Killingworth and Cramlington have been planned since Metro was on the drawing board but would require widening of the busy East Coast Main Line to four tracks, which would be expensive, or on a new alignment involving street running.
Now, what stands out to me is that it says this was planned since the metro was on the drawing board....Does anyone have anything from the 'drawing board' days of the metro?
Any bizzare plans which they decided against doing?
 
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