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In your anti unionist rant not once did you address my comment about GB to NI trade for the NI consumer. Not once.
 

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Discussion Starter #902 (Edited)
In your anti unionist rant not once did you address my comment about GB to NI trade for the NI consumer. Not once.
Actually it was anti-Unionist (capital U) not all unionists are opposed to the protocol or vote for Unionist parties, I should know.

Some teething problems have been encountered by consumers but the majority of those problems are precisely the result of the UK Government's last minute deal which left many businesses in a very difficult position regarding deliveries. The utter incompetence of the UK Government and woefully lacking guidance in regard to a range of issues is why we have most of the detailed issues.

Amazon deliveries continue as normal with the exception of alcohol. The reason - lack of clarity from HM Revenue & Customs in regard to excise. Nothing to do with the EU, purely the result of tardy Government action and easily addressed.

The same problems arose in regard to second-hand car sales and steel imports. The former has now been addressed by HMRC and the latter is in the process of being resolved.

Issues regarding soil and plants is a real issue but again, the UK Government agreed to enforce stricter phytosanitary standards on GB to NI movements. This can be resolved with the Swiss-style agreement on standards. Ball is with the UK Government on this also.

Early problems with supermarkets has largely been resolved and I've noticed most shelves well-stocked. An extension of the grace period would be welcome and seems it'll happen while more permanent solutions are worked out.

The UK Government could quite easily bring forward legislation compelling all GB-based businesses/retailers to treat NI as the same as GB and deliver. They haven't yet

Had the UK Government agreed a deal with more notice and provided significantly more time and detail for businesses to adjust their systems then January wouldn't have been so beset with issues.

It's also worth bearing in mind that Northern Ireland has never been treated equally by GB-based retailers. Prior to January 2021 customers here were not afforded the same free delivery conditions or some retailers didn't offer their services at all. Unless people are forgetting the 'Not available in Northern Ireland' at the bottom of some TV adverts?
 

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Discussion Starter #903
Additionally. The protocol allows for the tariff-free movement of goods from the EU to NI AND GB to NI.

So while a GB customer will have to pay additional fees on any online shopping coming from the EU which is valued more than £135, customers in NI don't. That's a win for NI consumers and it's why some brands like Hugo Boss are supplying directly from Germany now.

Northern Ireland actually finds itself is a very advantageous position and if marketed properly will bring significant economic benefits, growth and prosperity for the region. So much so that InvestNI have now copped on and are promoting as such. I would have expected a Unionist to support as such given that economic stability and growth contributes to general contentment in the populace regarding the constitutional question. Maybe that's too complicated or nuanced for flag waving Unionists though.....who knows.....their elected representatives certainly haven't seemed to grasp it and are, as they always seem to be, behind the curve and struggling to keep up.

Before you attempt to smear or sling some mud, I've always been quite open on here about the fact I'm a small 'u' unionist and support the current constitutional position of NI. That identity doesn't however blind me to reality nor prevents me from seeing opportunities and benefits for Northern Ireland with this protocol.
 

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It gives NI an advantage over businesses in both GB and ROI.

I expect to see a lot of GB investment there due to this which is the irony of some unionist opinion against it.

If you want to set up a factory and export to both EU and UK without so much as a form to sign and little to no costs compared to the huge costs and paperwork inflicted on GB business it's a hell of a lot easier now in Belfast than any city in GB.

Plus product substitution give local firms a huge opportunity to replace products from GB that are needlessly stacked on shelves when local firms can provide same products in a lot of cases of higher standard.

This is happening already because the big British stores have to look local now for certain produce particularly chilled meats.
 

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It's so frustrating that due to the lack of useful informative information provided by the mainstream media 90% of people don't have a clue what's going on with the protocol and what can be done to improve things. 90% of people don't give a toss where the border is either providing it doesn't impact their amazon deliveries so the DUP would be wiser playing things down rather than complaining as they are going to get slaughter in the next election unless they can demonstrate northern ireland is benefitting from this mess.
 

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Here's hoping they lose.

Northern Ireland's major unionist parties will be part of a legal bid to challenge the NI Protocol.

The Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), Ulster Unionists (UUP) and Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) have said they are supporting judicial review proceedings.

 
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They are just doing reputational damage and introducing uncertainty.

The reputational damage comes from unaware investors abroad thinking people are still shooting each other on street corners.

The uncertainty is for businesses making decisions to invest based on single market access.

Very short sighted even if they don't have a hope of winning.
 

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Discussion Starter #908 (Edited)
They're going through the motions. They have an Assembly election next year and need to demonstrate to their electorate they tried everything. All of this ignores the reality that the Irish Sea border would never have happened had the DUP supported Theresa May's deal and strategy. Why no challenge over the years if the basis is unfettered trade as enshrined in the Act of Union? Why no cases prior to now against the unequal treatment of NI by a plethora of goods and service providers in GB?

It'll fail, although it is rather ironic watching the likes of the TUV and DUP build a legal case around the Belfast Agreement, an agreement they bitterly opposed with every breath they had.

Once against political Unionist finds itself at a crossroads after placing blind faith in the Conservatives, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Problem for Unionists, this is the 4 or 5th time they've been thrown under the bus and they never ever learn. They run back to the Tories at every opportunity. Problem for them is the majority in NI seemingly support the Protocol and the vast majority in GB, and the Conservatives, couldn't give two f**ks about an Irish Sea border as they secured Brexit for England.
 

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I want them to fail because InvestNI has said the protocol is good for Northern Ireland, that it gives us an advantage and my point is if it's taken away from us, as a result of this legal challenge being successful, then we lose that advantage.

However the protocol has it's bad side and I'm just wondering is a judicial review needed to address the bad aspects of the protocol or is that something that can be sorted out between the government and the EU?
 

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Good to see articles like this and I'm sure promotion will ramp up. It's such a unique position to be in. In the world's largest single market as well as the UK (but just enough distance from the unstable regime in GB).

 

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Certainly in the case of NI, most of the business community is saying that the deal the Government has agreed with the EU for us is good for business and investment. Giving us access to the GB and EU markets.

The Chief Executive of Invest NI said that as a result off the NI protocol, big companies have expressed an interest in setting up here.

The head of manufacturing NI likened the political problems with the NI protocol to wearing in new shoes, you have to allow the leather to stretch a bit. He said the current political objection to the protocol is like a stone in your shoe you get rid of the stone, but ultimately the shoe will be comfortable.

Also, many others believe the DUP's objection to it is purely political.
 

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As a British citizen (and that must be respected). I do not want trade barriers in my country.

I don’t care what your political views are. No matter what you try to do or no matter what you do to twist it. It’s a bad thing and a bad outcome.

So many patronising responses talking about how people know nothing about the Protocol. I can assure you that it does affect GB to NI trade.

I worked in a supermarket when it was introduced and in the first few weeks the back stock rooms where completely empty. Only things such as crisps were arriving. This was remedied from a political push for a temporary grace period which is ending in April.

Of course you had people saying it was lies that knew nothing about the retail sector. No it wasn’t. And it still isn’t because you’ve got the likes of M&S whom have labels saying do not take this U.K. produce. So this will all come back again in April and we will continue to be affected by this.

Before this we have a ban (yes you read that right) a BAN on British meat coming into Northern Ireland - from the rest of our country. So we are going to lose a lot of choices and produce.

It is a terribly bad thing that we would have trade barriers in the British Isles. I do not triumph this deal or support it at all.

There needs to be a long term plan to limit this protocol heavily. It’s a bad thing and impacts consumer choice in NI. Enough about punishing the DUP, if you punish them you punish us all.
 

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Good to see articles like this and I'm sure promotion will ramp up. It's such a unique position to be in. In the world's largest single market as well as the UK (but just enough distance from the unstable regime in GB).

It’s hardly a unique position to be losing choice for consumers. Enough about businesses, actually think about people.
 

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They're going through the motions. They have an Assembly election next year and need to demonstrate to their electorate they tried everything. All of this ignores the reality that the Irish Sea border would never have happened had the DUP supported Theresa May's deal and strategy. Why no challenge over the years if the basis is unfettered trade as enshrined in the Act of Union? Why no cases prior to now against the unequal treatment of NI by a plethora of goods and service providers in GB?

It'll fail, although it is rather ironic watching the likes of the TUV and DUP build a legal case around the Belfast Agreement, an agreement they bitterly opposed with every breath they had.

Once against political Unionist finds itself at a crossroads after placing blind faith in the Conservatives, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Problem for Unionists, this is the 4 or 5th time they've been thrown under the bus and they never ever learn. They run back to the Tories at every opportunity. Problem for them is the majority in NI seemingly support the Protocol and the vast majority in GB, and the Conservatives, couldn't give two f**ks about an Irish Sea border as they secured Brexit for England.
Where is your concrete evidence that the majority of people in Northern Ireland support trade barriers with Great Britain. We did not vote on this protocol so you have no evidence.

Do not use Remain votes as evidence. Unionist remain voters do not support trade barriers.
 

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They are just doing reputational damage and introducing uncertainty.

The reputational damage comes from unaware investors abroad thinking people are still shooting each other on street corners.

The uncertainty is for businesses making decisions to invest based on single market access.

Very short sighted even if they don't have a hope of winning.
I know you are biased. Don’t say that about uncertainty, trade barriers creates uncertainty for British businesses that NI consumers buy from.
 

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Brexit creates uncertainty for Britsh businesses.

Are you dependent on GB trade to breath? There's a bigger world out there to trade with (as well as GB) and diversification should be welcome. The opportunities for local businesses as well should be welcome. The opportunity to get much more FDI in should be welcomed.

Think of the advantages. You're still in the UK btw so that argument is a load of nonsense. There are regions of England that would give their right arm for the position NI is in.

And it is a fact that most voted to remain (including unionists and nationalists).
 

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Discussion Starter #917
Where is your concrete evidence that the majority of people in Northern Ireland support trade barriers with Great Britain. We did not vote on this protocol so you have no evidence.
5,433 people in NI voted for the protocol in the 2019 General Election along with another 13,961,021 of your fellow British citizens in Great Britain. The trade deal and protocol were openly discussed and promoted as a great thing by the Conservative campaign and a majority of voters approved of it.

Polling from the likes of LucidTalk clearly show a majority in favour of the NI Protocol with around 15% of those who identify as Unionist (UUP/TUV/UUP) supporting it. They publish all their data so you can have a look at their site.
 

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Discussion Starter #918 (Edited)
Of course you had people saying it was lies that knew nothing about the retail sector. No it wasn’t. And it still isn’t because you’ve got the likes of M&S whom have labels saying do not take this U.K. produce. So this will all come back again in April and we will continue to be affected by this.
Actually the labels say "These United Kingdom products may not be marketed outside Northern Ireland"

What's wrong with that? It doesn't stop them being shipped to, or sold in, NI.

Before this we have a ban (yes you read that right) a BAN on British meat coming into Northern Ireland - from the rest of our country. So we are going to lose a lot of choices and produce.
Oh there will absolutely be some issues in regard to some meat products, that can however be addressed with a mutual agreement between the UK and EU. The UK agreed to those conditions though, they weren't imposed on them.

However, the majority of meat sold in NI supermarkets is sourced from NI suppliers. Additionally, there was massive disruption to UK supply chains in the last week of December thanks to the closing of the Channel crossing points, that filtered through to impact a whole range of products and stock shortages were widely reported across Great Britain, NI was not unique in this respect.

The issues of chilled meat and animal products does need to be addressed but any notion that most people in NI will throw their hands up in horror just because they can't get some GB sausages is a complete nonsense, the majority of pork sold locally is sourced from NI.

I couldn't care less if a meat processor in Birmingham loses NI business if it means a boost for local farming and food processors. The fact you're more concerned about the former is rather interesting and frankly absurd. I'll champion NI producers everyday of the week, we produce some of the highest quality and highest welfare meat in the world.

I should also add that the ban doesn't apply to frozen meat, that trade can continue as normal as the freezing process complies with health regulations. So you can still get your frozen Cumberland sausages, chicken portion, beef burgers and well.....everything really.

Enough about punishing the DUP, if you punish them you punish us all.
Yeah....that's not actually true. The DUP's toxic politics and history of it does no good for NI and the sooner the progressive centre becomes the majority the better for everyone in NI.
 

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M&S is a great example. Up until January they literally sourced everything from GB. Exact same here. And an obvious outlier in that respect.

They made ZERO effort to contribute a cent to local producers and supply chains.

One of the silver linings of Brexit is that they are now forced to engage with local producers and suppliers.

Just last week a NI firm got major contract to supply goods replacing some of those from GB incidentally.

That means more income and more employment ultimately.

I have nothing against a farm in Somerset but why should all those products be exclusively on the shelves in M&S when all local suppliers are ignored? It contributed the square root of nothing to local producers.

All other stores have no issue engaging local suppliers.

Plus as has been stated both parts of this island produce some of the highest quality produce in the world.

They have a bigger market now.

That is 100% a good thing for everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter #920
M&S does source from local suppliers though. Just to clarify this as they are an excellent retailer.

All beef sold in RoI stores is sourced in Ireland, same for milk, eggs and a range of other products. M&S are one of the best for locally sourcing foods and have been long before the bigger players started to.

I'll find the RoI numbers but in NI they deal with 11 direct suppliers and around 1,500 farms producing into the supply chain.

There's loads of island of Ireland products in M&S. I can walk in now and buy Macroom Buffalo Mozzarella, Irish Cheddar, Wicklow Brie, beef, pork, veg etc.
 
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