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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is related to a thread I started on the LA board where I noted that independent cities like Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, and West Hollywood function in a way that almost makes them a part of LA itself. In fact, they may all be Los Angeles in all things except municipal government.

Do such examples exist in other cities. Which places are part of the world that makes up a city's core, but are not within city limits?

The best examples I can think of are:

Miami - Miami Beach
Boston - Cambridge
Washington - Arlington
Cincinnati - Covington

A weaker example might be NYC - Jersey City. I question that one because despite the residential and business growth in JC that is lower Manhattan related, Manhattan is its own universe and tends to be closed off from surrounding areas.

From my Chicago perspective, suburbs like Evanston and Oak Park serve a cherished relationship with the city and abut it, but are too removed from the downtown core to be considered part of the essence of Chicago. Chicago does not connect with Evanston the way that Boston does with Cambridge.

Other possiblities (but ones I'm not as sure of):

San Diego - Coronado
St. Louis - Clayton, U City (although removed from downtown, StL's width is not that great and CWE within city limits is very much like a core area)

Would you agree with the 4 main examples I gave and the original one (LA's relationship with BH, SM, WH)? Are there other such relationships as well.
 

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I'm going to use Toronto as an example and say that Mississauga / North York / Etobicoke are all 'boroughs' that could probably be considered part of the city core. You could drive through all three without realizing you've left the city proper, mostly because they're so close together and they're all undergoing large scale developments. That, and given a clear day, you can see the Toronto skyline from just about anywhere in the three boroughs, which gives you the feeling that you're actually 'in' Toronto.

And I can't really comment on your choices because I don't know the areas well.
 

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I definitely agree with Arlington. Other places like Bethesda and Silver Spring are not really close enough to the core. Arlington is really just a continuation of the governmental "downtown" that is only separated by the Potomac. To a smaller degree, Chevy Chase along Wisconsin Avenue is seemless with the District.
 

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I'd include Coral Gables with Miami along with Miami Beach. Coral Gables is pretty much the corporate center of South Florida with downtown Miami being mostly filled with law,banking, and government offices. Downtown Coral Gables is only 3 miles (4 metrorail stops) from the center of Downtown Miami it houses the hemisperic or Latin American HQ's of just about all of the worlds largest companies (IBM, HP, CNN, Time Warner, Disney, Apple, Charles Schwab, ExxonMobil, Chevron Texaco, HBO, Goodyear, Heiniken, Hilton, Kraft, MGM, Merill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, Nextel, Prudential, United Airlines, American Airlines, Yahoo...)

An old pic showing the Gables' relationship to Miami in the distance (and Miami Beach beyond that)


 

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Cleveland and Lakewood
 

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Arlington and DC was the first example to come to mind. When in Ballston, for all practical purposes I consider myself to be in DC proper.
 

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Hudson County, New Jersey. Hell, one of the cities in Hudson is called West New York, NJ. If that doesn't say something...
Ditto. Also White Plaines, Yonkers, New Rochelle.
 

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How could you have left out San Francisco?

SF is commonly referred to as the "Bay Area," which consists of San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Berkely, Palo Alto, Silicon Valley, and a ton of other cities. I'd even say that Napa and Sonoma Valleys are legitimate examples.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
How could you have left out San Francisco?

SF is commonly referred to as the "Bay Area," which consists of San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Berkely, Palo Alto, Silicon Valley, and a ton of other cities. I'd even say that Napa and Sonoma Valleys are legitimate examples.
if we are going with my original concept...how neighoring cities realte to the core portion of a major city, San Francisco would be at the very bottom of the list.

The heart of San Francisco has no neighbors. Most people would probably include the downtown area (including Soma) and areas to the west (at least as far as Pacific Hts. and maybe Presidio Hts. and a minor incursion into Mission and Potrero Hill as core SF. Certainly areas along the San Mateo Co line from Candlestick Point to Parkmerced are not the heart of SF. Daley City relates to SF location wise like Evanston does to Chicago. Neither Evanston nor Daley City are core related in their respective cities.

No central city is as issolated from communities outside city limits as San Francisco, especially if you choose to look at Manhattan as being "the city" in NYC. Three quarters of SF's borders...the ocean, the bay, and the Golden Gate.....are water. Neither Oakland, Berkely,or Sausalito pass the closeness test.
 

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I tend to asgree with your basic concept, ed. And I would consider Evanston and Oak Park to be more core Chicago than parts of the city itself like Sauganash and Beverly. Of course, I grew up on the cities' northern edge, and half my family lived in Lincolnwood and Skokie, very close to my home in West Rodgers Park.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I tend to asgree with your basic concept, ed. And I would consider Evanston and Oak Park to be more core Chicago than parts of the city itself like Sauganash and Beverly. Of course, I grew up on the cities' northern edge, and half my family lived in Lincolnwood and Skokie, very close to my home in West Rodgers Park.
no question that Evanston and Oak Park serve a more core like function than Sauganash and Beverly. However, they clearly are not Lincoln Park or even Hyde Park in that respect.

In a place like Boston, however, Cambridge is very much a part of the core of the city. Cambridge, unlike Evanston or Oak Park, is "right there".
 

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no question that Evanston and Oak Park serve a more core like function than Sauganash and Beverly. However, they clearly are not Lincoln Park or even Hyde Park in that respect.

In a place like Boston, however, Cambridge is very much a part of the core of the city. Cambridge, unlike Evanston or Oak Park, is "right there".
You've got to be consistent. While Cambridge is just across the river from Central Boston, Santa Monica and Beverly Hills are quite a way from Downtown LA. I haven't measured but I suspect Oak Park is closer to the Loop than Santa Monica is to Downtown LA. Santa Monica And Beverly Hills have a core function in that they represent a lot of what noninhabitants of the Los Angeles area think of as "LA", just as Harvard square does for Boston.

For me the factor is "Can a noninhabitant of Cook County "know" Chicago without at least a casual familiarity with the Frank Lloyd Wright historical district or the Northwestern campus?" I would say no. But of course, you are always free to differ. Given the original terms of your arguement, lack of proximaty is not enough to disqualify an area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You've got to be consistent. While Cambridge is just across the river from Central Boston, Santa Monica and Beverly Hills are quite a way from Downtown LA. I haven't measured but I suspect Oak Park is closer to the Loop than Santa Monica is to Downtown LA. Santa Monica And Beverly Hills have a core function in that they represent a lot of what noninhabitants of the Los Angeles area think of as "LA", just as Harvard square does for Boston.

For me the factor is "Can a noninhabitant of Cook County "know" Chicago without at least a casual familiarity with the Frank Lloyd Wright historical district or the Northwestern campus?" I would say no. But of course, you are always free to differ. Given the original terms of your arguement, lack of proximaty is not enough to disqualify an area.
i'm basing it on how LA functions compared to Chicago. Chicago is very much a city of a core with concentric rings around it. The location of neighborhoods removed from the core is in many ways related to how far those neighborhoods are removed from the core.

LA is not core/concentric rings. More so than any US city, it spreads its true nature over a wide area. Most people, I would think, would have to put the westside high on the list of what makes LA tick. It was for that reason I suggested SM although BH and certainly WH are much closer to downtown.

In Chicago, I wouldn't consider Rogers Park to be core by any means, so Evanston next door wouldn't be either. Same with Austin on the west side, thus eliminating Oak Park.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
For me the factor is "Can a noninhabitant of Cook County "know" Chicago without at least a casual familiarity with the Frank Lloyd Wright historical district or the Northwestern campus?" I would say no. But of course, you are always free to differ. Given the original terms of your arguement, lack of proximaty is not enough to disqualify an area.
i would agree with that, but that doesn't make them core. What happens outside city limits makes a city tick, but it isn't part of the core. Both Cal and Stanford are part of the essence of San Francisco, but nobody could convince me that either Berkeley or Palo Alto are core San Francisco.
 

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^^ Cal and Stanford are great institutions but they are not part of the essence of San Francisco. The only city outside of San Francisco city limits that I would consider "essence of SF" is Sausalito.

Maybe because I grew up in a whole group of neighborhoods on the edge of Chicago, Rogers Park, Austin, Chatham, among others and worked most of the city on a Good Humor Truck, back in the day, I have a much bigger image of what constitutes the "core" of Chicago.

Hey Ed keep trying. One of these days we're bound to agree about something.

And What you mean Rogers Park isn't core Chicago? Devon Avenue? Flookies?
 
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