SkyscraperCity banner

241 - 258 of 258 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,808 Posts
Err the person being interviewed is Wayne Brown... He is more than just "in" the for camp, he "is" the for camp.

He chaired the group that put out the report suggesting moving to Northport...

He was handpicked by NZ First, and the outcome was well known in advance..

A bit like Labour choosing Michael Cullen to chair the Tax working group....
I almost choked laughing when he mentioned people with vested interests.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,229 Posts
On an unrelated matter and to follow up on someone elses point, I have long though the Navy should be in Northland anyway.
Though the Navy currently benefits from having access to Auckland's job market, which has much more depth compared to Northland.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,485 Posts
Err the person being interviewed is Wayne Brown... He is more than just "in" the for camp, he "is" the for camp.

He chaired the group that put out the report suggesting moving to Northport...

He was handpicked by NZ First, and the outcome was well known in advance..

A bit like Labour choosing Michael Cullen to chair the Tax working group....
Completely agree - which is why I qualified the statement that he was clearly "in the camp"...

But even so, at face value, it does make interesting listening and it's pretty hard to argue against his reasons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,485 Posts
^^

The keys there are - who's cost analysis is right because I've also read reports that put the cost of the Firth of Thames at less than Northport given that;
the existing infrastructure is totally inadequate and you are talking a corridor about 100kms longer.
the issues of getting freight through west Auckland
why should Akl lose control of its port

I'm less concerned about the 3rd point but would like to see some proper research into the first two - not just political grandstanding.

I do agree it's between those two options. I also think the whole debate is way premature and is also sheer politicking by NZF
The problem with Firth of Thames, which indeed is exactly where I would have thought was a much better option is that it's very shallow... There will be LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of dredging which will make it expensive initially to build, and expensive to operate... NorthPort is already dredged where needed for the refinery, and NorthPort is adjacent, so over and above what it done now, very little dredging will be needed.

The other issue with the Firth of Thames is that while it's indeed a lot closer, there are no highways or rail that go direct to the sites where a port was considered. OK, not necessarily a huge ask since links could be built relatively easily, but given that the same money could be spent upgrading the road/rail corridors to NorthPort which are needed for reasons other than NorthPort anyhow, then it seems probably better to spend it in the north.

In terms of whether Auckland should lose control of it's port, well thats a completely separate issue... but considering that Ports of Auckland already owns a part of NorthPort anyhow, then indeed, they won't lose full control, and will likely become a bigger shareholder as quite possibly they will be involved in funding some of the expansion, not to mention the new inland port NW of Auckland. Either way, I don't see Auckland "missing out".

In terms of moving freight through West Auckland, well it won't really be a problem because much of the freight will be supposedly destined for West Auckland anyhow. For example when big international chains like CostCo, Ikea etc set up in West Auckland, they'll need freight to get to their major distribution centres... I imagine that getting freight from Tauranga to West Auckland will be a lot harder and slower than getting the same freight to West Auckland from Northport.

As the guy in the interview states, a large percentage of Aucklands imports already come into the city from Tauranga anyway, so the idea that NorthPort will increase shipping costs compared to leaving the port as is in downtown Auckland is likely to be a non-starter... For example, the TV set you buy in Whangarei which was imported via Tauranga sells for the same price in Tauranga as it does in Whangarei... Fuel proves this too where I can buy petrol at a remote fuel station in the backblocks of inland South Island, miles away from a fuel terminal cheaper than the BP or Mobil only a few km's from the fuel terminal in Lyttleton/Woolston.

Anyway, I completely agree that the reason this whole idea has come up is because it was presumably a non-negotiable aspect of NZF's election deal... Remember that Winston will likely stand at the next election just to see his party remain in parliament, and then he will resign. He will want a send off in style and the northport project is clearly designed to pay homage to him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,808 Posts
The problem with Firth of Thames, which indeed is exactly where I would have thought was a much better option is that it's very shallow... There will be LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of dredging which will make it expensive initially to build, and expensive to operate... NorthPort is already dredged where needed for the refinery, and NorthPort is adjacent, so over and above what it done now, very little dredging will be needed.

The other issue with the Firth of Thames is that while it's indeed a lot closer, there are no highways or rail that go direct to the sites where a port was considered. OK, not necessarily a huge ask since links could be built relatively easily, but given that the same money could be spent upgrading the road/rail corridors to NorthPort which are needed for reasons other than NorthPort anyhow, then it seems probably better to spend it in the north.

In terms of whether Auckland should lose control of it's port, well thats a completely separate issue... but considering that Ports of Auckland already owns a part of NorthPort anyhow, then indeed, they won't lose full control, and will likely become a bigger shareholder as quite possibly they will be involved in funding some of the expansion, not to mention the new inland port NW of Auckland. Either way, I don't see Auckland "missing out".

In terms of moving freight through West Auckland, well it won't really be a problem because much of the freight will be supposedly destined for West Auckland anyhow. For example when big international chains like CostCo, Ikea etc set up in West Auckland, they'll need freight to get to their major distribution centres... I imagine that getting freight from Tauranga to West Auckland will be a lot harder and slower than getting the same freight to West Auckland from Northport.

As the guy in the interview states, a large percentage of Aucklands imports already come into the city from Tauranga anyway, so the idea that NorthPort will increase shipping costs compared to leaving the port as is in downtown Auckland is likely to be a non-starter... For example, the TV set you buy in Whangarei which was imported via Tauranga sells for the same price in Tauranga as it does in Whangarei... Fuel proves this too where I can buy petrol at a remote fuel station in the backblocks of inland South Island, miles away from a fuel terminal cheaper than the BP or Mobil only a few km's from the fuel terminal in Lyttleton/Woolston.

Anyway, I completely agree that the reason this whole idea has come up is because it was presumably a non-negotiable aspect of NZF's election deal... Remember that Winston will likely stand at the next election just to see his party remain in parliament, and then he will resign. He will want a send off in style and the northport project is clearly designed to pay homage to him.
That's actually not true the area where the best location for the port is 15m deep around 100m from the shoreline. You also have to remember that the guy who wrote the report is about as biased is you could possibly get, he's been a cheerleader for moving the port to Whangarei for many many years, he was mayor there not so long ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,808 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
818 Posts
Moving it to the Firth of Thames will no doubt have an even larger effect since you are starting from scratch, and not an already modified environment. On the other hand the marine environment at Auckland will benefit greatly if the port moves.
Having one port handling the work of two makes more sense.
Since when did you listen to environmental "lefties"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
818 Posts
And I think that we be all she wrote about moving the ports activities to Marsden Point.
Oooh. Some daft greenie says no? Yeah that should stop it, but wait and see what happens if someone pushes the Firth of Thames option which would involve wrecking a pristine marine environment compared to the already modified ecosystem at Marsden Point and you will see some real opposition.
Leave it where it is.
Good to see you are starting to listen to the lefties. There is hope for you yet!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,808 Posts
Oooh. Some daft greenie says no? Yeah that should stop it, but wait and see what happens if someone pushes the Firth of Thames option which would involve wrecking a pristine marine environment compared to the already modified ecosystem at Marsden Point and you will see some real opposition.
Leave it where it is.
Good to see you are starting to listen to the lefties. There is hope for you yet!
You're confusing green for left, not green is left and not all lefties are greenies.

Considering it's a feeding ground for Orca, and sea life has only recently made a comeback to the harbour and that there's a marine reserve to one side of the proposed wharf extension, its not going to fly.

Firth of Thames option is at the mouth of the Firth, the ecologically important bits are much further in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
818 Posts
You're confusing green for left, not green is left and not all lefties are greenies.

Considering it's a feeding ground for Orca, and sea life has only recently made a comeback to the harbour and that there's a marine reserve to one side of the proposed wharf extension, its not going to fly.

Firth of Thames option is at the mouth of the Firth, the ecologically important bits are much further in.
I have dived both sides of the Firth mostly at the mouth since the Thames end is just flat sand and mud. I know which end recreational divers would prefer to leave untouched, so wait for squarks from NZUA.
There is already a tanker and log port at Marsden Point so if the orca are as you say feeding today, they can continue when container ships load there as well.
You can bet your little green button that if a proposal goes through to build the port at the Firth of Thames, the same little greenies will protest about that too. The only port they would accept is one that accepts sailing ships.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,638 Posts
Moving it to the Firth of Thames will no doubt have an even larger effect since you are starting from scratch, and not an already modified environment. On the other hand the marine environment at Auckland will benefit greatly if the port moves.
Having one port handling the work of two makes more sense.
Since when did you listen to environmental "lefties"?
Should Auckland Council call tenders for the POA land and actually determine what the market believes the land is worth? Before any thought of moving the Port is looked at.

Can't see the sense in moving the Port if you have no idea what the land is worth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,485 Posts
Should Auckland Council call tenders for the POA land and actually determine what the market believes the land is worth? Before any thought of moving the Port is looked at.

Can't see the sense in moving the Port if you have no idea what the land is worth.
I would expect that a "good guesstimate" has already been done... Obviously it will be worth more once it's actually sold and re-zoned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
637 Posts
New Interislander ferry designs unveiled
KiwiRail has unveiled concept designs for a pair of greener, technologically-advanced ferries it plans to roll out within the next five years.
On Wednesday, KiwiRail said the ferries - which would operate as Interislander services on the Cook Strait between Wellington and Picton - would increase capacity for the "vital" transport link.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,040 Posts
They are going to be massive ships and I'm happy to hear they will be plugged into the electricity power supply when in port. I think it should be a requirement for all large vessels docked up.
 
241 - 258 of 258 Posts
Top