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more pipedreams??
Some of the proposals obviously are there as "pork" to satisfy some right-wing councillors.

http://www.thestar.com/news/transpo...proposal-floated-by-stintz-debaeremaeker?bn=1

Two councillors leading the TTC say it’s time to move ahead on an accumulating wish list of transit projects: 175 kilometres, including six subway lines, 10 LRTs and five bus and streetcar routes across the city.

The latest proposal would dramatically expand Toronto’s transit network over the next 30 years. And while it comes with a $30 billion price tag, it is well within the city’s grasp, say the councillors at the helm of the Toronto Transit Commission.

TTC chair Karen Stintz (Eglinton-Lawrence) and vice-chair Glenn De Baeremaeker (Scarborough Centre) believe residents can be persuaded to make the kind of transformative investment that would save Toronto from descending into a prosperity-crushing, gridlocked future.

They are calling their proposal OneCity and are asking council to approve a staff study of the plan in July. Councillors would then have until October to take the plan to their constituents before considering approval.

“What this does is it clarifies for the city of Toronto what our network is, how it fits into the regional context and how we propose to fund it,” Stintz said. “The funding, if approved, is dedicated, dependable and debt-free.”

If it flies, Stintz, who has denied she plans to run for mayor, will have engineered the delivery of two elements in Mayor Rob Ford’s election platform: A Sheppard West subway extension linking the Yonge line with the Spadina subway, and the extension of the Bloor-Danforth subway along the Scarborough Rapid Transit (SRT) route.

The timeline is critical, say the councillors, because the provincial cabinet has not yet signed off on converting the SRT to light rail transit and the new plan depends on being able to leverage the upcoming property reassessment process that begins in the fall.

“If we can create this value proposition and if we can get buy-in from council and if the public believes this is a viable plan, we are in a better position to start collecting that revenue in 2013,” Stintz said.

The funding proposal would involve getting the province to approve a regulatory change that would allow the city to capture 40 per cent of the higher property values from next year’s reassessment.

That would amount to $45 per average household annually, accumulating to $180 a year on average, which would remain on property tax bills. It would mean $272 million a year in new tax revenue for the city.

“Every penny will go into building and maintaining public transit. That’s going to be the test for council and the people of Toronto,” said De Baeremaeker.

Toronto’s property taxes would still be among the lowest in the region, Stintz said.

The $272 million would form the city’s third of an annual $1 billion transit investment, with the province and Ottawa kicking in a standard one-third each.

The plan is being proposed as the provincial agency Metrolinx rallies support for a regional transit investment strategy to raise about $40 billion. That’s the cost of implementing the rest of the Big Move regional transit plan.

The province has already committed to the first $11 billion of that plan, including $8.4 billion for four lines in Toronto: LRT on Finch, Sheppard and Eglinton, and the conversion of the SRT into LRT extending from the Eglinton line.

Queen’s Park gave Metrolinx until June 2013 to figure out how to raise the rest of the money. But with the Liberals in a minority government and close to the next election by the time the strategy is published, there are fears no party will be willing to commit to new taxes.

Stintz has said repeatedly that Metrolinx needs to be consulting municipalities on the issue of how to raise transit funds. Other politicians, including Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion, are also advocating new taxes and tools to pay for transportation.

The first funds from the Stintz-De Baeremaeker plan would go toward converting the SRT route into a subway line, at a cost of about $2.3 billion. The project would have a head start from the $1.8 billion the province has already committed, Stintz said.

Although a subway would be routed somewhat differently from the SRT, it would have the advantage of not shutting down the SRT for four years — unlike the current plan, which calls for putting SRT riders on buses for that period, while the new LRT is built.

De Baeremaeker says he’s confident the six Scarborough-area MPPs would support the idea.

The second priority in the new OneCity vision would be an east waterfront LRT, at a cost of about $300 million. Waterfront Toronto has allocated $90 million toward transit on the lakefront east of Yonge St., and developers there have been bracing for a temporary transit solution such as bus rapid transit.

All the lines in the OneCity plan have been approved at one time or another, and in some cases the environmental assessments have been done for years, said De Baeremaker.

Stintz said she’s had preliminary discussions with the province and the mayor’s staff about the plan, but no commitment of support.

OneCity rebrands some potentially divisive projects such as a downtown relief subway line, which has been renamed the “Don Mills Express” line.

It also aligns with some regional transit projects, including the air-rail link, which the councillors say could be converted to public transit by adding three more stops. A second set of tracks to GO’s Stouffville line would allow for a Scarborough Express above-ground subway or train that delivers riders from Steeles Ave. to Union Station.

OneCity's proposed lines

• Six subway lines, 72 km, $18 billion

Replace the Scarborough RT with a subway from Kennedy Station to Sheppard and McCowan; extend the Yonge subway to Steeles Ave.; build a Sheppard West subway to Downsview Station; build a Don Mills Express subway line from Eglinton to Queen St.; upgrade the Bloor-Yonge subway station; build a Scarborough Express line from Steeles Ave. to Union Station; build an Etobicoke Express Line from the airport to Union Station using the air-rail link.

• 10 LRTs, 73.5 km, $9.5 billion

Extension of the Sheppard East line to Meadowvale, the zoo, and Malvern; build a Scarborough Malvern LRT; extend the Eglinton LRT to the airport; extend the Finch West LRT to Humber College and the airport; build a Jane LRT from Steeles to Bloor; Waterfront West LRT from Union Station to Long Branch; a Finch West LRT from Keele to Yonge St. and a Don Mills LRT from Steeles to Eglinton

• Five bus and streetcar lines, 25.7 km, $1.2 billion

Waterfront East streetcar line from Union Station to Parliament St., Ellesmere bus rapid transit from Scarborough Centre to Sheppard and Kingston Rd.; Kingston BRT from Victoria Park Station to Eglinton and Kingston Rd.; extend the St. Clair streetcar from Keele to Jane; a Wilson BRT from Wilson Station to Keele St.
 

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insertoronto
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finally, something that makes sense! a lot of this probably won't get built, as these grandiose plans that are supposed to last 30 years in execution never actually end up being completed. but here is what I hope gets done, as well as the stuff i think will get done, in order.

Id also like the first 4 (preferably 5) to go ahead immediatly, with the rest going ahead after these are paid off.

1. bloor danforth extension to sheppard (as the plan calls for)
2. waterfront west LRT (as the plan calls for)
3. waterfront east streetcar
4. DRL
5. eglinton extension
6. Jane LRT and St. Clair extension to jane
7.sheppard east LRT extensions, and the Malvern LRT.
8. Sheppard east subway
9. yonge extension, preferably with the province funding the extension north of steeles to highway 7.
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last. the stouffville rail corridor rapid transit. I really think this is a waste of funds. the only part that makes any sense is the part north of sheppard. (the other parts all run parallel to an existing / planned subway, rendering it useless) I would rather see an even further extended bloor danforth subway take up the role.
 

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My head is spinning!

Judging by the diagram posted above. I can see the DT relief line on the east end which connects up to Don Mills, but I don't see it on the west end.

Are they proposing some lonely subway line from Kennedy to the Sheppard East LRT line? Or is it an extension of the Bloor line?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My head is spinning!

Judging by the diagram posted above. I can see the DT relief line on the east end which connects up to Don Mills, but I don't see it on the west end.

Are they proposing some lonely subway line from Kennedy to the Sheppard East LRT line? Or is it an extension of the Bloor line?
The Etobicoke Express line would be the functional equivalent of DRL in the west end
 

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Actually the Etobicoke and Scarborough Express routes are basically plans that marry the ARL and the I-Metro-E proposal, probably about 7 to 10 stops per line. I believe the GO routes would still function in the same corridors, perhaps with only 1 station per line plus Union acting as transfer points.

Personally I think Metrolinx, the TTC, YRT, DRT and Mississauga and Brampton Transit agencies need to hammer out a joint plan for the next 30-50 years and come up with a funding mechanism that serves all areas.
 

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I could quibble with some of the lines but the important thing is that this provides a steady stream of income for expansion. I also like the idea of integrating rail lines into the TTC (if I'm reading it correctly).
 

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Yesterday i had put together a transit map of Mississauga with the LRT and Subway extensions that i believe are needed. the subway from kipling would go to sherway gardens, dixie go station, the chinese complex on dundas, hurontario and dundas, cooksville station, hurontario and central parkway and finally citycentre terminal.

The LRT would follow the plan the council is working with along Hurontario street. There would also be a line east of Hurontario along eglinton. The LRT would mee up at renforth with the TTC's plan along eglinton.

I should just post a picture.... If only i knew how
 

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Mơמkƹ͛ƴ∆ґ&#4
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A western DRL would make far more sense than a western extension of Sheppard. And to run it under Queen instead of King.
 

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insertoronto
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king makes more sense through the financial district, with it dropping down to hit the planned bathurst GO terminal and then exhibition place...

and you can post photos by using photobucket.. create an account, upload the photos, and then copy the IMG code provided. paste it in your post, and you have a photo!
 

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insertoronto
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not really. at its core all it is is a 1.9% tax hike each year, and they just claim it is CVAU, to make it seem as though it isn't really that much of a tax hike.

But I do support this fully. heck, they should ramp it up. phase in to $360 a year over 8 years. that brings in $14,416,000,000 instead of the relatively paltry $7,072,000,000 from this proposal.
 

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Looks good. I'd also like to see the different lines in order of prioritization. We're not going to build this all at once. What are the most urgent new lines?

1. DRL... er... Don Mill Express is an obvious one (btw, does express mean it's not going to stop at Gerrard and Queen in Riverdale or the Distillery District?)

2. Bloor-Danforth extension to STC since it's replacing the SRT upgrade

3. Eglinton LRT extension to Pearson. We need affordable rail transport to Pearson

4. Waterfront West LRT. This one would be so cheap and easy to build - most of it is already there.

5.6.7.8.9. Sheppard subway to Downsview, Jane and Don Mills LRT, Finch LRT to Yonge and Pearson, Malvern, Zoo... these are all lower on the list
 

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king makes more sense through the financial district, with it dropping down to hit the planned bathurst GO terminal and then exhibition place...
But Queen will have a much larger catchment area. People heading to the Eaton's Centre and Dundas would walk from Queen, but from King might transfer to the Yonge line which is what the DRL is supposed to discourage. King is a 3 minute walk from Queen, so nobody would transfer to get to the financial district from a stop a Queen.

And a western extension along Queen makes more sense than running it to Exhibition (as per that proposal that was supposed to alleviate congestion at Union). Exhibition already has GO and a ROW streetcar going to it (and will therefore be on the proposed Waterfront West LRT). Queen west is in much greater need of better transit, especially with all the new condo residents on the north side of the tracks that would have a hard time accessing a subway south of the tracks.
 

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not really. at its core all it is is a 1.9% tax hike each year, and they just claim it is CVAU, to make it seem as though it isn't really that much of a tax hike.

But I do support this fully. heck, they should ramp it up. phase in to $360 a year over 8 years. that brings in $14,416,000,000 instead of the relatively paltry $7,072,000,000 from this proposal.
Now I wish I had left my post. Your comments weren't there when I changed it. If it is just a tax hike, they're being pretty disingenuous suggesting otherwise.

I'm not entirely against them raising property taxes. However, the property tax in Toronto, as elsewhere, is basically a regressive tax, as the rate is higher for rental buildings than owner occupied dwellings.
I would rather see the City push for road tolls, which would force more of the burden onto car owners and people outside of the city proper.
This could all be made moot by whatever Metrolinx proposes in its investment strategy.
 

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But Queen will have a much larger catchment area. People heading to the Eaton's Centre and Dundas would walk from Queen, but from King might transfer to the Yonge line which is what the DRL is supposed to discourage. King is a 3 minute walk from Queen, so nobody would transfer to get to the financial district from a stop a Queen.
The DRL (or Don Mills Express) is there to serve rush-hour commuters going to the financial district. King makes much more sense that Queen for that stretch because of the greater volume of commuters going there. Outside of the financial district, you may have an argument for Queen.
 

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insertoronto
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I sort of agree with kensingtonian now. a queen alignment would not stop financial district employees from using it, and it would serve as a cultural destination as well, keeping it busy during the hours outside of 7am-9am and 4pm-6pm.
 

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^^Exactly

The DRL (or Don Mills Express) is there to serve rush-hour commuters going to the financial district. King makes much more sense that Queen for that stretch because of the greater volume of commuters going there. Outside of the financial district, you may have an argument for Queen.
Solely serving rush-hour commuters is the goal of commuter rail. The DRL subway should also serve more local commuters and should aim for off-peak ridership as well. Queen would do this without sacrificing anything from the financial district commuters. Anyone unwilling to walk from Queen to King or Wellington is not going to be taking the subway.
 

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^^Exactly



Solely serving rush-hour commuters is the goal of commuter rail. The DRL subway should also serve more local commuters and should aim for off-peak ridership as well. Queen would do this without sacrificing anything from the financial district commuters. Anyone unwilling to walk from Queen to King or Wellington is not going to be taking the subway.
The sole purpose of the DRL is to relieve the rush-hour traffic to and from the financial district. There is no overcrowding on off-peak hours. King and St. Andrew have greater ridership numbers than Queen and Osgoode.
 
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