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I've seen homeless in SF rocking iPhones
If they have a job that pays 40k, not paying rent actually allows them to afford things like iPhones, the problem would be theft. I've heard of people that became homeless but kept things like cell phones with data plans to check their emails, had low paying jobs, and kept a gym membership (so they can get a shower) and a car to store their stuff. It must be hard though.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So how do you guys expect people to work at min. wage jobs at fast food and grocery stores? Unless they are getting paid 65-80K
 

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Is that possible? :?
I know people who live decently on that but they generally live in rent-controlled apartments where they have lived a long time and therefore pay far below current rents. To move to the city today and make that kind of wage, you'd have to live in a roommate situation and even so your abode would probably be in one of the city's least expensive neighborhoods (the southern area perhaps--the Tenderloin doesn't have many places with 2 or more bedrooms).

In the case you are describing, the best thing probably would be to look for a place in the East Bay. If you could find something suitable there reasonably close to a BART station, it would give you access to downtown SF as good as living in a remote part of the city itself.
 

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So how do you guys expect people to work at min. wage jobs at fast food and grocery stores? Unless they are getting paid 65-80K
To be perfectly honest, I suspect most fast food workers I encounter live in some sort of subsidized housing situation. That could be anything from public housing to younger people living with their parents.

The real concern is a step up from minimum wage into the range you mentioned--around $40k per year. As I said, many of these people, who work in service industries from department stores to restaurants and hotels, live in rent-controlled apartments. Others are married and therefore have 2 incomes or have a roommate. Some do as I suggested and live outside San Francisco and commute. Many employers subsidize commuting on public transportation.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
^^ hmmm interesting...
and this BART you talk about....it goes far no? All the way to Oakland and San Jose? Even Freemont? :?
 

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So how do you guys expect people to work at min. wage jobs at fast food and grocery stores? Unless they are getting paid 65-80K
Min wage in SF is $10.75/hr, I think it is 2nd or 3rd highest in the nation after Seatac, and maybe soon to be Seattle?. To afford to get a bedroom in an apartment with roommates in SF expect to pay $800/mo min, these options would be in the west or south parts of SF, there are some cheaper options but they are few and far between, also one could share a room, but adults rarely do that. $800/mo = $9600/yr, to be comfortable with that rent one will probably have to make $28800/yr or more. So 2679hrs a year, or 53.58hrs a week on average assuming you can't take hours for 2 weeks/yr because you're on vacation or it is a low period.

Realistically I suspect people with such low paying jobs moved to SF a while back and are under rent control, it used to be tenderloin and Mid market were way cheaper, and before that the Mission district was more affordable.

Many businesses adjust wages to attract people, so don't necessarily expect all these businesses to pay min wage.

BART is expensive way to get around, and I doubt it would get one from SF to a place with higher paying min wage jobs, for one minimum wage in the rest of the Bay Area is $9/hr, and $10.15/hr in San Jose. Oakland may raise it to $15/hr at some point, but so far they are not approving that. Berkeley and SF may vote to go up to $15/hr as well but that is off in the future, but so far travelling out of SF will not get better min wage jobs, and the rest of the Bay Area is not as expensive as SF so businesses probably don't have as much capability to pay as much for labor, their profit margins are probably tighter, little room to raise prices, etc.
 

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^^ hmmm interesting...
and this BART you talk about....it goes far no? All the way to Oakland and San Jose? Even Freemont? :?
BART is expensive, it can easily be $5 each way or more, that adds up over a working month, $200/mo for going back and forth every weekday for example.

BART doesn't go to San Jose, not yet anyway, wait 3 years.
Oakland is just across the bay from SF and it does go there.
Fremont (one e) is the current terminal in the East Bay line going south.
 

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BART is expensive, it can easily be $5 each way or more, that adds up over a working month, $200/mo for going back and forth every weekday for example.
Yes, but as I said, many employers subsidize public transit commuting.

San Francisco Bay Area employers with 50 or more full-time employees within the Bay Area Air Quality Management District (Air District) geographic boundaries are now required to register and offer commuter benefits to their employees by September 30, 2014 in order to comply with the Bay Area Commuter Benefits Program. Through this program, employers must offer their employees one of four Commuter Benefit options in order to comply with Air District Regulation 14, Rule 1. Commuter benefits encourage employees to take transit, vanpool, carpool, bicycle and walk rather than drive alone to work.

Option 1 — Allow employees to exclude their transit or vanpool costs from taxable income, to the maximum amount, as allowed by federal law (currently $130 per month).
Option 2 — Employer-provided transit subsidy (or transit pass) or vanpool subsidy up to $75 per month.
Option 3 — Employer-provided free or low cost bus, shuttle or vanpool service operated by or for the employer.
Option 4 — An alternative employer-provided commuter benefit that is as effective as in reducing single occupant vehicles as Options 1-3.
https://commuterbenefits.511.org/#options
 

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When you look at living conditions in a city you are looking at a historic layering. My cousins live in SF on minimal income (mostly social security). But they have no house payments, don't drive and have minimal needs. Many older people are in similar or somewhat similar conditions.

I know many young people living 3 or 4 to a low-grade loft who do it on WAY less than 40k. You miss a few rent payments, hustle some dope, sell you bike and steal a cheaper one. Move in with someone else when necessary. Just like anywhere else.

In my view, new arrivals are making a very foolish decision to live in SF on 40k income. But it's their decision. And probably fun for a few years before you decide to get your act together and do something besides wait tables and play in a band.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Well plan A) is out of the way.
Anyone know if anyone is hiring a Canadian by any chance? :D I like America.......I like SF....

Btw: is there a jewish area around SF? :?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
My old company sent some stuff to BART...
those guys were in Oakland (head office) and assholes too :mad:
 

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Btw: is there a jewish area around SF? :?
Not really. There are a fair number of Jews and some nice synagogues and a Jewish Community Center, but no single neighborhood. And unfortunately, to my east coast palate, the kosher deli food in SF is pretty sad. People in CA are health-obsessed which means fat in food is taboo and as far as I'm concerned meats like corned beef and pastrami need some fat to be tasty. In the Bay Area they don't have any.

Temple Emanu-El in SF

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Congregation_Emanu-El.jpg

SF Jewish Community Center

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/jewi...asx6gYbghhLp1zIp0Uxd7g#alzX77_fAZLnSIHGrigPNQ

Congregation Sha'ar Zahav (gay)

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/15291475
 

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In the case you are describing, the best thing probably would be to look for a place in the East Bay. If you could find something suitable there reasonably close to a BART station, it would give you access to downtown SF as good as living in a remote part of the city itself.
Yeh, good luck with that if you need to commute to SF everyday for work.

It's just and simply nuts that BART doesn't offer unlimited monthly/year passes for commuters (probably the only mass commuter system in the nation not offering such a pass?).

For someone commuting from the East Bay to SF every day, they'd be looking at around $8 per day if they come from El Cerrito or San Leandro (could be much more). That is $40 a week if they come to the city 5 days a week. That comes to $190 a month (I added 2 return-tickets for 2 random events in the City during the weekends).

If however our commuter is not lucky enough to be within walking distance of a BART station and needs to transfer to Muni, he/she would be looking at adding $66 to their monthly commute. That would come to a grand total of around $250 for commuting on public transit to live in the East Bay and work in SF. And we are still leaving outside of this equation any public transit that our commuter might need to take to reach their BART station on the East Bay from their apartment or simply to move around the East Bay in the evenings or during the weekends.

A low-paying job in San Francisco + living in the East Bay being an affordable option is an urban myth and a fable.

BART must offer monthly and year passes for commuters once and for all...! It's about time.
(and by doing so property and rental prices in San Francisco might even go down....)
 

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Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Well plan A) is out of the way.
Anyone know if anyone is hiring a Canadian by any chance? :D I like America.......I like SF....

Btw: is there a jewish area around SF? :?
Berkeley and North Oakland have strong Jewish communities if you like very progressive. But they don't tend to live right together because observing the Sabbath in an orthodox fashion is not their thing.
 

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Not really. There are a fair number of Jews and some nice synagogues and a Jewish Community Center, but no single neighborhood. And unfortunately, to my east coast palate, the kosher deli food in SF is pretty sad. People in CA are health-obsessed which means fat in food is taboo and as far as I'm concerned meats like corned beef and pastrami need some fat to be tasty. In the Bay Area they don't have any.

About right. LA (especially the west side and SFV) is the nearest real outpost of quality deli's and Eastern European food.
 
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