It's no secret that Palestinians get mistreated by other Arab nations. All the more reason why Palestinians need a state of their own they can return to..kinda mirrors the Jewish story :/
Palestinian Academic: Israel, the Good Enemy
http://qudosi.com/politics/64-mid-east--south-asia/932-israel-the-good-enemy
Written by a Palestinian-Jordanian academic, Mudar Zahran
Written by a Palestinian-Jordanian academic, Mudar Zahran
Israel’s relationship to the Palestinians has always been globally approached with standardized heavy criticism made to Israel. The main charges waved in Israel’s face have always been “the Disapropriate use of force” and “discrimination”.
Israel’s critics, either willingly or out of ignorance, choose to overlook the way many Arab countries mistreat Palestinians. Some Arab countries are almost never blamed for what they have been doing to the Palestinians for decades. Such selective recognition of facts by Israel’s critics is bizarre when weighed by truth instead of myths.
In December of 2008, Israel launched operation “cast lead” against Hamas which was launching rockets on Southern Israel on a daily basis. This operation has resulted in the death of more than 1,400 Palestinians, many said to be civilians; an absolute tragedy, nonetheless, those criticizing Israel fail to recognize that the number of causalities is small comparing to Gaza’s population of 1.5 million, considering the high density of Gaza’s population per square kilometre, the number suggests the Israeli forces were very cautious in carrying out their attacks, despite the fact that they were chasing a moving target, Hamas militants. If Israeli forces were targeting Palestinian civilians, the number of the dead would have reached tens of thousands.
On comparison; in 1976, Lebanese militiamen butchered 2,000 Palestinians; almost wiping out the entire population of Tell al-Zaatar refugee camp within days. This was revisited again in 1982 in Sabra and Shatelah massacre; where, in less than four days, Lebanese militiamen killed thousands of women and children who posed no threat as most Palestinian fighters had left then to Tunisia. Two years ago, al-Jazeera satellite network aired rare footage of Palestinians running to Israeli soldiers for refuge from the massacre.
Furthermore, most Arab atrocities against Palestinians have included documented rape cases, even of children, while not a single rape case has been reported against Israeli forces in more than sixty years of operations.
Arab governments’ oppression of the Palestinians does not stop at bloodshed and wholesale slaughters, in fact the more troubling aspects of the way they treat Palestinians is in the systematic long-range exclusion and discrimination. In Arab countries where Palestinians make up a good percentage of the population; they are depraved of all basic necessities, starting with education, down to basic healthcare. Even at countries that have granted the Palestinians citizenships; the Palestinians stand helpless and banned from every potential to improve their livelihoods.
Israel, on the other hand, has always allowed Palestinians to work there and to get paid in Western standards, and even had allowed them generous access to healthcare. In fact, Israel has also welcomed Palestinians as visitors, patients and even as investors, this generosity was only limited when Hamas started bombing Israeli civilians with no signs of an end in sight.
The complexity Israel has with Palestinians revolves around security rather than ideological issues; Israel does not have an aim to enslave the Palestinians for life or purposely degrade their humanity. While many Arab countries have designed their systems to discriminate and humiliate the Palestinians, squeezing them into illiteracy and poverty while milking them for tax money.
This has become most visible recently with calls in some Arab countries to revoke citizenships of all Palestinians there and actually to force them to seek local guarantors to obtain residency, thus enslaving them for life.
This comes as a deeper shock for Palestinians when they see Israeli Arabs, with many of them describing themselves as “Palestinians in Israel”; those are full citizens of Israel with access to all privileges. Israeli Arabs are fully represented inside the Knesset while Palestinians, in their Arab homeland, are allowed only symbolic presence in parliaments, even at countries where they are the majority. And while some Arab countries selectively withdraw citizenships from Palestinians, many Arab Knesset members do not hesitate to speak against Israel with no fear of losing their citizenships or entitlements.
Still, while the world is most vocal about Israeli military operations, it fails to recognize that Israel has been dealing with non-stop unrest on its soil since the breakout of the Intifada in 1987. Has that Intifada taken place in any Arab country; it would have ended within the first couple of weeks with an Arab army killing more than ten thousands Palestinians, most being civilians. Examples of this are countless and in all Arab countries hosting Palestinians; yet the world seems to think this reality is too overrated to recognize.
Today, with peace negotiations up and running, some Arab governments seem to want to butcher the Palestinians again on the altar of dictatorship by worsening their living conditions and making their lives more miserable, just to secure a better negotiating position or merely a seat at the negotiations table. Not to mention that many of those actually would rather see the negotiations fail in order to keep more international aid money flowing to them for “hosting” the Palestinians.
Quoting a commentator on one of my articles; “the Palestinians, do obviously need a break from their sworn Arab friends”, and perhaps they can reconnect to them when they have learned a lesson or two from their Israeli “enemies”.
Meanwhile, the world will remain silent about the Palestinians’ suffering at the hands of some of their “brothers”, as it’s too occupied with Israel.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Israel has to behave with restriction because it is seen as a part of the western world, that is what some advocates of Israeli policies even when the behaviour is non western do not understand when criticised. Israel has to act in a way that will not bring about a total backlash from the EU and especially the US, because these places have an image to protect and cannot show support for Israel if Israel crosses a certain line.
Most Arab countries are already tainted and their actions do not harm the western image as they are not classified as a part of the west.
Most Arab countries are already tainted and their actions do not harm the western image as they are not classified as a part of the west.
The main difference is that there is virtually no difference between the Palestinians the the rest of the Arabs, while there was a significant difference between the Jews and the rest of the population in the countries where they lived, especially when they were less secular.It's no secret that Palestinians get mistreated by other Arab nations. All the more reason why Palestinians need a state of their own they can return to..kinda mirrors the Jewish story :/
Anyway, many people tend to forget that while the Arab nations "accepted" around 800,000 Arab refugees in the late 1940's, Israel accepted a similar number of Jewish refugees from the Arab nations. From the late 1940's to our days, the number of Palestinian refugees has grown from around 800,000 to 4.5 million, while the number of Jewish refugees was reduced from ~800,000 to 0.
I'm sure that Israeli behaves with much more restriction than NATO forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, but yet it seems like Israel gets at least 100 times more international criticism for its actions. It's completely political- I'm sure that if some countries wanted to do so they could find human rights abuses in Sweden and Norway- they just don't have any interest to politically fight these countries' government, while many nations hope that fighting the Israeli government will improve their ties with the Muslim world. Also, it's much easier to fight Israel because Israel's only serious ally is the USA, and the USA can't just start a political conflict with a nation because its government suddenly became more anti-Israeli. So everyone just punches Israel whenever possible: "Hey, look, I have a great idea: We should send the Palestinians a few dollars, complain about the horrible Israeli occupation and then call the Iranian ambassador and check if he can manage to let us get some of his country's oil".Israel has to behave with restriction because it is seen as a part of the western world, that is what some advocates of Israeli policies even when the behaviour is non western do not understand when criticised. Israel has to act in a way that will not bring about a total backlash from the EU and especially the US, because these places have an image to protect and cannot show support for Israel if Israel crosses a certain line.
Most Arab countries are already tainted and their actions do not harm the western image as they are not classified as a part of the west.
I never claimed that it was fair. Likewise Turkey is much more restrained in its interventions in Northern Iraq than the US is in northern Pakistan, but as long as we want to maintain their support we have to play the game by their rules, even if they break the rules for themselves from time to time. I truly do understand how the average Israeli feels, trust me Turkey has been going through EU negotiations for so long that while France for example can go around suggesting stripping its citizens of their citizenship if they commit crimes and goes around deporting EU citizen Romas, if Turkey does anything likewise they are the first to cry blue murder. But like I said, if you want their continued support, you have to accept their criticism and intervention, otherwise you are out of the game, that's why the Arab nations for example can do whatever they want as they are already playing in a different league.I'm sure that Israeli behaves with much more restriction than NATO forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, but yet it seems like Israel gets at least 100 times more international criticism for its actions. It's completely political- I'm sure that if some countries wanted to do so they could find human rights abuses in Sweden and Norway- they just don't have any interest to politically fight these countries' government, while many nations hope that fighting the Israeli government will improve their ties with the Muslim world. Also, it's much easier to fight Israel because Israel's only serious ally is the USA, and the USA can't just start a political conflict with a nation because its government suddenly became more anti-Israeli. So everyone just punches Israel whenever possible: "Hey, look, I have a great idea: We should send the Palestinians a few dollars, complain about the horrible Israeli occupation and then call the Iranian ambassador and check if he can manage to let us get some of his country's oil".
Israel's main problem is that this criticism and intervention often contradicts Israel's interests. Therefore, Israel has to carefully navigate between the international criticism and what its security demands- to reduce the criticism to the bare minimum while damaging Israel's security as little as possible.But like I said, if you want their continued support, you have to accept their criticism and intervention, otherwise you are out of the game, that's why the Arab nations for example can do whatever they want as they are already playing in a different league.
People just have a hard time understanding that Israel has no reason to ignore human rights- unless its essential for its security, and it's widely agreed that it's possible to do so in certain conditions. The major problem is that these conditions aren't very accurate, just check the siege on Gaza for example:
It's pretty obvious that Israel isn't trying to stave anyone in Gaza, but "excessive damage" is something which is impossible to determine: How is it possible to compare damage to civilian population to military advantage? I really have no idea.102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:
(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or
(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.
Therefore, if you are anti-Israeli you can easily claim that the damage to the civilian population is too great, and if you are pro-Israeli you can easily claim that the damage to Gaza's civilian population is reasonable. It's just a matter of interpretation- and everyone can use this kind of laws to his own advantage. Sadly for Israel- most of the world's advantage is usually Israel's disadvantage.
What region in the world is not diverse?Ahem.... the MENA is one of the most diverse regions in the world. We are all the same? How ignorant. We got such variation its what makes our region so unique.
Exactly my point.. It was in reference to this:
Dark Shadow said that..The main difference is that there is virtually no difference between the Palestinians the the rest of the Arabs, while there was a significant difference between the Jews and the rest of the population in the countries where they lived, especially when they were less secular.
Come on, there are difference in every single place on Earth: You can count dozens of different kinds of Americans in the USA, dozens of French in France, same thing in Italy, Russia, UK, China... Yet you can't say that an American from New Orleans is significantly different than an American from New York (I'm talking about the typical American, who is white and Christian).Ahem.... the MENA is one of the most diverse regions in the world. We are all the same? How ignorant. We got such variation its what makes our region so unique.
So the Southern states of the USA should demand an independent state, I'm sure everyone will peacefully accept that :lol:Yes you can fool....
Perhaps he would correct me but I think what he meant is that there is no easily identifiable difference between the Arabs of Gaza and the Egyptian Arabs. Also, between the Arabs in Ramallah and the Arabs in Amman.Exactly my point.. It was in reference to this:
Dark Shadow said that..
1. 75% of the Hashemite Kingdom population defines itself as Palestinian Arab. That makes Jordan a de-factor Palestinian Arab state.
2. What is the linguistic difference between the Arabic of Gaza and the Arabic in Egypt.
3. There is also similarity in terms of ethnicity and religion.
4. This is the most important point. When Egypt occupied Gaza and the Hashemites occupied the area West of the Jordan River there was no Palestinian Arab natioanlism or the PLO. It only came about after the 1967.
This is what Dark Shadow was probably refering to:
Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:
The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28222
^^Coming from the same organization who claimed that the Land of Palestine starts from the north of Beirut. yeah you know what happened next.
"Arab Unity" is dead and was born dead.
@ Dark shadow : I understand, you are surrounded by terrorists,haters, etc..it is really normal to see all Arabs in the same eye. But if I were you I would try to know better before making such assumption.
"Arab Unity" is dead and was born dead.
@ Dark shadow : I understand, you are surrounded by terrorists,haters, etc..it is really normal to see all Arabs in the same eye. But if I were you I would try to know better before making such assumption.
The above admonition is based on emotions rather than facts.^^Coming from the same organization who claimed that the Land of Palestine starts from the north of Beirut. yeah you know what happened next.
"Arab Unity" is dead and was born dead.
@ Dark shadow : I understand, you are surrounded by terrorists,haters, etc..it is really normal to see all Arabs in the same eye. But if I were you I would try to know better before making such assumption.
Unfortunately, regardless of any emotions Israel has a tough fight on her hands for generations to come and the USA just as Israel will also have a tough fight for many years to come. It took the USA over 70 years to defeat the Soviet Communism and it will probably take just as long if not longer to defeat the Islamic terrorism/radicalism and the groups like Taliban, al-Qaeda, etc.
When the Arab world finally reconciles with the existence of the Jewish democracy in the ME within the defensible borders both the Arabs and Jews will move forward.
^^ He was talking from a religion point of view and according to what he can see.
Arab(Palestinian, Jordanian, Lebanese, Egyptian, etc,) are all the same because they are Muslims, they are all Anti-Israel and Pro-Palestine.
While Jews, even when "they were Arab" they were different because they are Jews and all what comes with being one.
According to his logic; therefore a Palestinian can move to anywhere he wants in the Arab world and he will live perfectly fine because Arabs are all the same.
This is a shallow overview and not correct, a very tiny example : Lebanon 1975.
Arab(Palestinian, Jordanian, Lebanese, Egyptian, etc,) are all the same because they are Muslims, they are all Anti-Israel and Pro-Palestine.
While Jews, even when "they were Arab" they were different because they are Jews and all what comes with being one.
According to his logic; therefore a Palestinian can move to anywhere he wants in the Arab world and he will live perfectly fine because Arabs are all the same.
This is a shallow overview and not correct, a very tiny example : Lebanon 1975.
This wasn't my point- the Palestinians are not the same as Jordanians, Lebanese, Egyptian etc- but the differences between them aren't significant, and there is no doubt that the Arab nations could have overcome them in a decade or two if they had wanted to. The fact that the Palestinians weren't completely integrated in any Arab state (the most advanced one in this matter is probably Jordan) just shows that these states didn't actually try to integrate them, just in order to preserve the Arab-Israeli conflict, not because they cared about the Palestinians.^^ He was talking from a religion point of view and according to what he can see.
Arab(Palestinian, Jordanian, Lebanese, Egyptian, etc,) are all the same because they are Muslims, they are all Anti-Israel and Pro-Palestine.
While Jews, even when "they were Arab" they were different because they are Jews and all what comes with being one.
According to his logic; therefore a Palestinian can move to anywhere he wants in the Arab world and he will live perfectly fine because Arabs are all the same.
This is a shallow overview and not correct, a very tiny example : Lebanon 1975.
Integration needs a social, economical and an internal policy ground to build upon.
Currently, none of these factors are even close to make the idea of integration possible.
Our "obsession" with restoring Palestine/destroying Israel comes third or forth after our obsession with our national security and interests. And integration is part of neither .
Actually, if it weren't for the 0.5 million Palestinian refugees, no one would have cared about what happens outside the border.
Currently, none of these factors are even close to make the idea of integration possible.
Our "obsession" with restoring Palestine/destroying Israel comes third or forth after our obsession with our national security and interests. And integration is part of neither .
Actually, if it weren't for the 0.5 million Palestinian refugees, no one would have cared about what happens outside the border.
If Lebanon had integrated the Palestinians, they wouldn't have posed any security threat. But it's easier to stick them in crowded refugee camps and then complain that they pose a security threat.Integration needs a social, economical and an internal policy ground to build upon.
Currently, none of these factors are even close to make the idea of integration possible.
Our "obsession" with restoring Palestine/destroying Israel comes third or forth after our obsession with our national security and interests. And integration is part of neither .
Actually, if it weren't for the 0.5 million Palestinian refugees, no one would have cared about what happens outside the border.
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Join the discussion
SkyscraperCity Forum
A forum community dedicated to skyscrapers, towers, highrises, construction, and city planning enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about structures, styles, reviews, scale, transportation, skylines, architecture, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top Contributors this Month
View All
Katarzyna DJ
7560 Replies
calatravavx
2270 Replies
Srdjan Adamovic
1745 Replies
Recommended Communities
Join now to ask and comment!