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là je comprends plus... dsl je parle français car l'anglais me limite... "smelly ugly city with fast food evrywhere"... tu confirmes? mais je dois pas vivre dans la même ville que toi et minato, où j'ai une définition différente de la ville. (je parle de Paris intramuros, et de manière globale). :eek:hno:
Je comprends pas pourquoi tu me réponds ça?
J'ai plusieurs fois critiqué la façon dont Minato photographie Paris et je n'adhère pas trop à sa vision. Néanmois il révèle certains lieux peu ou prou photographiés. En cela ses reportages peuvent être interessants.
Je ne dis pas que Paris est sale, moche, envahie de fastfood. Loin de là. Elle me parait relativement préservé comparée aux villes anglosaxonnes.
Je cherchais juste à répondre à Mr Brick. Montrer Paris bombardé, montrer Paris ethnique, montrer Paris sale, montrer Paris chaotique, montrer Paris diversifié est à mes yeux une réponse aux préjugés permanants qui circulent, y compris chez des "spécialistes". J'entendais un jour les propos de Viguier qui dénonçait un Paris trop homogène. Je lisais avant hier un article sur archicool ventant les mérites de Rotterdam et Shanghai comparés à la léthargie de Paris. Je ne comprends pas.
De façon anecdotique, lire des guides touristiques qui vendent un Londres ou un New-York multiethnique, pourquoi pas... mais ces touristes ont-il mis les pieds au marché Dejean ou aux Olympiades?! Fantasmer sur les banlieues sans fin, l'architecture des villas... et la banlieue parisienne?! ensenser les ruptures d'échelles, et dénoncer le chaos de la banlieue...n'est-ce pas paradoxal? Barcelone et Berlin, fer de lance de la création architecturale... quid des réalisations parisiennes?
De l'extérieur n'est renvoyé principalement que l'image du Paris amélopoulinesque. Il n'y a qu'a regarder les nombreux sujet photos ici. Chacun tente alors de montrer autre chose et d'attirer l'attention sur ces faits, ces lieux qui aujourd'hui font l'identité de bien des villes et qui, dès qu'il s'agit de Paris, sont méconnus pour ne pas dire niés.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Je lisais avant hier un article sur archicool ventant les mérites de Rotterdam et Shanghai comparés à la léthargie de Paris. Je ne comprends pas.
Le jour où le Grand Paris administratif existera enfin, et où la mairie du Grand Paris et la préfecture de police seront installées dans la Plaine St Denis, le regard changera du tout au tout.
De l'extérieur n'est renvoyé principalement que l'image du Paris amélopoulinesque. Il n'y a qu'a regarder les nombreux sujet photos ici.
Je compte organiser des expéditions photos en grande banlieue dès que les arbres auront des feuilles. ;)
 

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Je comprends pas pourquoi tu me réponds ça?
J'ai plusieurs fois critiqué la façon dont Minato photographie Paris et je n'adhère pas trop à sa vision. Néanmois il révèle certains lieux peu ou prou photographiés. En cela ses reportages peuvent être interessants.
Je ne dis pas que Paris est sale, moche, envahie de fastfood. Loin de là. Elle me parait relativement préservé comparée aux villes anglosaxonnes.
Je cherchais juste à répondre à Mr Brick. Montrer Paris bombardé, montrer Paris ethnique, montrer Paris sale, montrer Paris chaotique, montrer Paris diversifié est à mes yeux une réponse aux préjugés permanants qui circulent, y compris chez des "spécialistes". J'entendais un jour les propos de Viguier qui dénonçait un Paris trop homogène. Je lisais avant hier un article sur archicool ventant les mérites de Rotterdam et Shanghai comparés à la léthargie de Paris. Je ne comprends pas.
De façon anecdotique, lire des guides touristiques qui vendent un Londres ou un New-York multiethnique, pourquoi pas... mais ces touristes ont-il mis les pieds au marché Dejean ou aux Olympiades?! Fantasmer sur les banlieues sans fin, l'architecture des villas... et la banlieue parisienne?! ensenser les ruptures d'échelles, et dénoncer le chaos de la banlieue...n'est-ce pas paradoxal? Barcelone et Berlin, fer de lance de la création architecturale... quid des réalisations parisiennes?
De l'extérieur n'est renvoyé principalement que l'image du Paris amélopoulinesque. Il n'y a qu'a regarder les nombreux sujet photos ici. Chacun tente alors de montrer autre chose et d'attirer l'attention sur ces faits, ces lieux qui aujourd'hui font l'identité de bien des villes et qui, dès qu'il s'agit de Paris, sont méconnus pour ne pas dire niés.
ok, précisé comme ça je comprends mieux, je trouvais cette assertion bien lapidaire.
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
Even less well known than WW2 bombings, Paris was also bombed during WW1. The Germans used a huge canon called Paris-Geschütz (in French: la Grosse Bertha) which was stationed at the border between Picardy and Champagne and was powerful enough to reach Paris 120 km (75 miles) in the distance. I think it was the most powerful land cannon that was ever built on Earth. It was so huge and powerful that it had to be mounted on rails like a train. The objective of that cannon was psychological: show the French at the rear in Paris that they were as vulnerable as people at the front.

In total, this huge canon shot 350 times, killing 250 Parisian and wounding another 620. The worst shelling took place on March 29, 1918, when a single shell (shot from 120 km away) hit the roof of the 16th-17th century St-Gervais-and-St-Protais Church in the heart of Paris, collapsing the entire roof on to the congregation then hearing the Good Friday service. A total of 88 people were killed and 68 were wounded.

St-Gervais-and-St-Protais Church after being hit by the Grosse Bertha in 1918:




The Germans also used planes to bomb Paris in 1918. Although it was nothing like the sophisticated and very destructive bomber aircrafts of WW2, they nonetheless damaged many buildings and killed many Parisians.

After having defeated the Russians, Ludendorff and the German High Command hoped to destroy the morale of the French civilians and force them to sign an armistice before the Americans were numerous enough to tilt the balance in favor of the Allies. Unfortunately for the Germans, it failed, in large part due to the unshakable attitude of the French prime minister Clemenceau.

Here the building at 14 rue de Rivoli, near the Paris City Hall, was destroyed by bombs dropped from German planes in the night of April 12, 1918:


Here the Vincennes Cemetery in the eastern inner suburbs of Paris, hit by bombs dropped from German planes on March 11, 1918:


That same night another German plane dropped a bomb which dug a hole in the middle of rue de Lille, in the 7th arrondissement:


Another building in the heart of Paris destroyed during that same March 11, 1918 German bombing raid:


Haussmannian building partly destroyed by bombs dropped on March 29, 1918 by German "Gotha" bombers:


This Parisian taxi driver lost his life during that same March 29, 1918 bombing raid:


Understandably, the morale of the Parisians was very low. The city was evacuated again as had already happened in 1914, but Clemenceau was intractable. Unlike in 1914 (when he was not yet prime minister), he refused to move the government out of Paris. Instead he went to the National Assembly and said: "My foreign policy and my internal policy is one and the same. Internal policy: I make war. Foreign policy: I still make war. I always make war." 8 months later, the German Empire was defeated.

Last year in the former battlefield region on the border between Picardy and Champagne there was an exhibition entitled "1918: Fire on Paris!"
 

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Interesting thread, but the pictures are very depressing...

I'm so happy that Paris managed to rise from the ashes to become (arguably) the most beuatiful major city in the world.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Some more pictures of WW1.

Buildings at the Passage des Tourelles, in the 20th arrondissement, bombed by the Germans on January 29, 1916:


The big statues at the entrance of the Tuileries garden protected against German bombs. Photo taken in October 1918. In the foreground a widow (more than 1.4 million young Frenchmen died at the front, so there were many widows in France at the time):


Some other pictures of rue de Rivoli bombed by the Germans in the night of April 12, 1918:




Damaged buildings at 16 avenue de la Grande Armée (that's the avenue between the Arc de Triomphe and La Défense), on February 3, 1918:


The beautiful Renaissance era Fontaine Médicis, in the Gardens of the Luxembourg, protected against bombs. Photo taken in February 1918:


Buildings destroyed at 295 rue du Faubourg Saint-Antoine, in the 12th arrondissement, in April 1918:


German bombing of June 1 and 2, 1918 at boulevard de la Gare, in the 13th arrondissement:


Civilians taking refuge in the basement of a building during a German bombing raid in 1918. These images are more usually associated with WW2, but as you can see they also happened during WW1.


The nursery of the Baudelocque Hospital, in the 14th arrondissement of Paris, destroyed by German bombs on April 11, 1918:


Rue Geoffroy-Marie, in the 9th arrondissement, after the bombing raid of March 8, 1918:


A 'Grosse Bertha' hit in rue Titien (13th arrondissement) on May 25, 1918. All the people in the hotel died in their sleep ('Grosse Bertha' shelling, like V2 during WW2, were silent and unannounced, so civilians didn't have time to run to the shelters):


Another 'Grosse Bertha' hit in rue Montmartre (1st arrondissement) in June 1918:


Another 'Grosse Bertha' hit in the Boulevard de l'Hôpital (13th arrondissement) on May 23, 1918:


Even the French Ministry of War was bombed by the German aviation on March 11, 1918. Georges Clemenceau, who was both prime minister and minister of war, was not hurt.


Rue des Dunes, in the 19th arrondissement, on March 11, 1918:


Rue des Dunes again:


Boulevard de Strasbourg, in the 10th arrondissement, on March 23, 1918. As you can see, contrary to WW2 where it is essentially the suburbs and outer arrondissements that suffered the most, during WW1 it is the very heart of Paris that was the most bombed. The reason why Paris still looks intact today is because WW1 bombing raids were not as massive and destructive as WW2 bombing raids.


Rue Mézières, in the 6th arrondissement, on March 8, 1918:


Rue Laffitte, in the 9th arrondissement, also on March 8, 1918:


The very famous 16th century St Eustache church, by Les Halles, bombed by the German aviation on January 30, 1918. I bet most people who walk by Les Halles today have no idea this area was bombed in 1918.


The Opéra Garnier, protected against German bombs, in 1918:


The Porte Saint-Denis, also protected against bombing raids:


Notre Dame was also protected against bombs:




Shop owners also tried to protect the windows of their shops against bombs (but always in style! lol). Here at boulevard du Montparnasse, near today's Montparnasse Tower:


Here again, window protection on Boulevard de Sébastopol, in the 1st arrondissement (a shop selling cisors):


Window protection on rue de Rivoli, in the 1st arrondissement, in 1918:


The statue of the Republic, at Place de la Nation, in 1918:


Trying to save the sculptures on the Arc de Triomphe:


The 13th century stained glasses of the Sainte Chapelle, on the Isle of the Cité, were also protected against German bombs:
 

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Discussion Starter #51
A book about the destruction of Central Paris. A must-read to dispell some myths.

 
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