People who work in the city

I can understand some of the feelings of different vibes but as i've always argued passionately Cities develop in their own cultural / historical / social environment and we will never be Manchester Leeds Glasgow or Cardiff and likewise each of these cities has it's own uniqueness that makes the city it is.

As for London any comparison to anywhere else in UK is futile as it operates on a different scale, both in transport, population, demographics etc before you even come to the cultural and historical. I love London but comparing to us to London really is chalk and cheese.

I do however understand the restaurant owners views. There is a lot going on in Birmingham but we don't always make it well known, even to people who live here let alone tourists, but there are areas with a buzz such as Digbeth, Moseley, and there are attractions and good restaurants and good pubs.

From having visited quite a few cities Birmingham has it's identity but much as I go to Manchester, Glasgow or Leeds for example and think 'I like that' and 'wish we had it' I come back and love what I love about Birmingham and what makes Birmingham Birmingham.
That's not to say it can't get better. I definitely think we need to engage young people more as we have such a young population and i'm not always convinced our council and the representatives of bodies set up to make Birmingham better actually do this. We have a massive asset with the youthful potential of Birmingham and you'd think the Oasis market for example would be just one of a plethora of things which make Birmingham a hip place.

A friend was telling me yesterday that he didn't like looking round town on his lunch break and it was the people that made him fed up of the place. I guess we can be our own worst enemy too with a city not just made up of buildings but the people it contains who live, work and shop here.

You've definitely raised interesting questions. Surprised no-one put there tuppence in.

apologies for my wordy reply but very interesting

One thing which shocked me was viewing a prominent art gallery in the city centre, and after attending an art showing where many prints were sold, much of the art was of London and New York and no local artists at all.

I spoke to the manager who has been there for a year or so and it appears that they have never visited another gallery in the city, not even BM&AG, I was literrally dubmfounded as the art that is on sale at the gallery was high end stuff. It appears that Bham city centre is seen by many as simply a place to work in, and not hang around after 6pm, what a sad prospect and obviously doesn't help towards making a vibrant place.

I think it maty be getting better though, and may be that these types of people/busiens would, at one time, not have existing in the city anyway.

I think it will come with time, but a few pointers would help:

- better evening public transport
- shops open later
- coffee shops/cafes open later
- more cultural features open past 5pm
- more city core living and hotels (people who live near Brindleyplace keep BP busy because it is near home. Similarly for the JQ so they all leave the city core and go elsewhere in the city centre)

The whole butchers/bakers thing is a bit of a red herring because I can't think of many British cities that have them in the city centre other than in supermarkets and department stores. I would like to see a street of independent foodmongers though or markets that are open later (and better surroundings).

Biosonic said:

I think it will come with time, but a few pointers would help:

- better evening public transport
- shops open later
- coffee shops/cafes open later
- more cultural features open past 5pm
- more city core living and hotels (people who live near Brindleyplace keep BP busy because it is near home. Similarly for the JQ so they all leave the city core and go elsewhere in the city centre)

The whole butchers/bakers thing is a bit of a red herring because I can't think of many British cities that have them in the city centre other than in supermarkets and department stores. I would like to see a street of independent foodmongers though or markets that are open later (and better surroundings).

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Agreed.

For me, the main features to make the city a better place to live and work:

More independent shopping (in one place)
Metro routes
More green spaces
More water
Less traffic
Better Architecture

Those are the core issues that should be addressed as far as city centre goes and connecting it to the suburbs.

I found a great Boulangerie on Colmore Row. They bake the bread in Knowle though and import it in daily, very good quality, I've tried the dried Tomato loaf, better than cheap supermarket rubbish.

I buy my meat from the House Of Fraser butchers which is slightly more expensive but fresh and lasts longer IMO, will try the markets next for fruit and veg, I used to use supermarkets for everything but if the option is there and the quality I'd rather spend the extra TBH. More enjoyable experience too.

Elizabeth Kinoke said:

Agreed.

For me, the main features to make the city a better place to live and work:

More independent shopping (in one place)
Metro routes
More green spaces
More water
Less traffic
Better Architecture

Those are the core issues that should be addressed as far as city centre goes and connecting it to the suburbs.
.

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Independent shopping, Birmingham City Centre has over 100 independents, places such as Burlington Arcade, Piccadilly Arcade, Great Western Arcade, Edgbaston Street host a number of these, these vary greatly in product and price. Try the Style Birmingham Shopping guide for more info on independents available at the tourist info hut and I believe central library.
Metro, they're looking into extending the metro, I can't see it working myself
More green spaces, nice idea and Eastside regeneration may go ahead with the green area which goes along with it but the money simply isn't there for any other new projects, Colmore BID is starting an ambitious project to create a public space on Church Street. Unfortunately other BIDs don't quite have the budget to bring similar changes to the streetscape.
More Water, More Canals than venice and we have problems with water, possibly making a feature out of the water we already have may be more feasible, but yet again it comes down to money Victoria Square's fountain has been turned off for over 6 months because there was no money to fix it, repairs are on going now should be finished end of October, have to be finished by mid November. Yet again no money.
Less Traffic, I'd love for there to be less traffic one of the ideas in the Retail Design Stratergy is to take out the Temple Street/Bennetts Hill Loop, personally I'd love to see the whole city centre core under the current traffic highway regulation that forbids vehicles between the hours of 10:00-18:00 on High Street/(most of) New Street

Martin Bham said:

Independent shopping, Birmingham City Centre has over 100 independents, places such as Burlington Arcade, Piccadilly Arcade, Great Western Arcade, Edgbaston Street host a number of these, these vary greatly in product and price. Try the Style Birmingham Shopping guide for more info on independents available at the tourist info hut and I believe central library.
Metro, they're looking into extending the metro, I can't see it working myself
More green spaces, nice idea and Eastside regeneration may go ahead with the green area which goes along with it but the money simply isn't there for any other new projects, Colmore BID is starting an ambitious project to create a public space on Church Street. Unfortunately other BIDs don't quite have the budget to bring similar changes to the streetscape.
More Water, More Canals than venice and we have problems with water, possibly making a feature out of the water we already have may be more feasible, but yet again it comes down to money Victoria Square's fountain has been turned off for over 6 months because there was no money to fix it, repairs are on going now should be finished end of October, have to be finished by mid November. Yet again no money.
Less Traffic, I'd love for there to be less traffic one of the ideas in the Retail Design Strategy is to take out the Temple Street/Bennetts Hill Loop, personally I'd love to see the whole city centre core under the current traffic highway regulation that forbids vehicles between the hours of 10:00-18:00 on High Street/(most of) New Street

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I've looked at Style Birmingham website and it is awful to navigate, it also promotes the large chain stores and shop centres first and foremost.

I would create something totally different. And optimise it on Google probably for a fraction of the cost. For a start, the word style is going to put a lot of people off, especially for someone who wants to find a decent local butchers or bakers, or somewhere to buy hand made gifts etc etc etc.

Accepted about spending limits.

Forget any other parks and water features then... concentrate on one really impressive site down EAst Side, and make the new buildings world around the park land and water ways. Put all the energy into that first, with large broad leaf trees maybe even a small pine Forrest walk with a central area for performers.

I've seen, quite literally a neon, luminous type smog hang over the skyline of Birmingham from the centre and it makes me feel sick, way too many cars and motorways around. We should charge people to travel the M5/M6 and bloody well invest that money into making the air cleaner for West Midlands. As I wake up from that dream... why not pursue as you say restricted time zones for a start, then look at charge zones like London, and park n ride schemes for commuters who don't give a shit about the city. Plenty could be done there.
I am a strong believer in where there is a will there is a way.

Elizabeth Kinoke said:

Agreed.

I found a great Boulangerie on Colmore Row. They bake the bread in Knowle though and import it in daily, very good quality, I've tried the dried Tomato loaf, better than cheap supermarket rubbish.

I buy my meat from the House Of Fraser butchers which is slightly more expensive but fresh and lasts longer IMO, will try the markets next for fruit and veg, I used to use supermarkets for everything but if the option is there and the quality I'd rather spend the extra TBH. More enjoyable experience too.

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That bread shop is very good, and there's a new deli opening in there too. The markets are good for fruit & veg but not enough range (it's all the 'normal' stuff plus a bit of West Indian) although there is a good little organic stall in the middle that does seasonal veg.

The quality of the produce in the markets is great if you select your own. Knobbly lemons, scarred tomatoes, funny shaped cucumbers - all the stuff you get abroad that looks a bit odd but tastes great. AND it is a lot cheaper than supermarkets. The shelf life isn't as long as supermarkets though but that is a small price to pay for tasty, FRESH and RIPE food.

Less traffic

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Be wary of this though - we don't want to exclude traffic because that is one of the things that makes a place vibrant. Just less of it or on main routes with some pedestrianised side roads/routes.

Elizabeth Kinoke said:

A street of independent foodmongers would be brilliant, Mailbox? Broad Street? Corporation St? Or a new street altogether.

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It would need to be near a station/transport interchange to pick up passing trade, preferably near the office core and on a route home for city-centre dwellers walking home.

Lower Colmore Row? Upper New St?

I've worked in several different parts of the city centre and I find the reaction to Birmingham to be quite dependant upon which part of the ‘city centre’ you work in. In the 5ways / Hagley Rd office area there is quite a negative view of Birmingham from the non-locals (long and middle distance commuters) the area is considerably less attractive and more unwelcoming to pedestrians and has a lot less street activity than the other main office areas (Broad St has the activity but is still traffic choked and unfriendly). My experiences of working in the city core around Colmore Row are much more positive – people love how accessible it is by public transport but they also love the old areas at the core of the city and how pedestrian friendly it is and how there is so much to do. I’ve never worked in Brindley Place but I can imagine it is a similar reaction to the city core. IMO people’s opinions are largely based upon their own experiences and if your day to day experience is being stuck in traffic on the Hagley Rd followed by going to work in a 60s office tower around 5 ways then going out on Broad St then what can you expect people to think.

I think the Big City Plan will address some of the main issues many of us have and as far as the city centre is concerned continue to make progress – particularly on connectivity between the different areas of the city – (which is/has been improving) - but remains a big issue nonetheless -consider for example the walk from Bullring to Digbeth down the High St – not particularly nice.

Birmingham is big.

A huge functional machine where everything flows reasonably well and doesn't faff around with any pretence about what it does. You come to shop, you get your groceries, you come to work, you meet up after. You go out. It works. There are no hiccups. No airy-fairy garnish - it just works.

And that is where I think many outside miss the point. There is ambition in this town and much of it can be fulfilled by the citizens, authorities etc etc but it isn't pretentious. Birmingham has a functional realism with a warm buzz that doesn't shout - you just kind of, well, know what's going on - where many from out of town that don't.

The main issue is the pure clone-commercialism of the town centre and this is quite extreme compared to many other cities - It usually feels like that the big functioning machine, only really wants big functioning names to come to town and the token gesture towards independent retail last month is really a farce. Lets face it, Oasis Markets only got a reprieve but that will end soon. The GW arcade is still having problems.. and they even put a Greggs inside too!! and there are next to no boutiques from independent fashion designers anymore - and that could have raised the profile of the Mailbox somewhat.

Most of the funky stuff happens outside town where the typical outsider won't know about - that is, Moesley, Harbourne (perhaps even Kings Heath).

The city just works but perhaps it feels too much like a machine sometimes only interested in big commerce - and seems to miss a heart.

It really annoys me when people like the "manager of the italian restaurant" says that there is not a buzz like there is in cities like London and Manchester. For starters where was this Italian restaurant?????? And how does it compare to his other restaurants which i am assuming he has in London and Manchester. I know certain areas of the city are dead after the workers have gone home, for example after about 7pm ish around the Colmore row area, it goes pretty quiet but that is becouse it is "our financial centre" full of offices and nothing really else, so why would it be any different??
Anybody who really thinks Manchester city centre is "buzzing" 24/7 needs to get a reality check, becouse i know it isnt, it has certain areas which are "pretty buzzy" all the time like Deansgate locks which is pretty cool, just like our very own Mailbox area around the canal and Brindleyplace. Area around Canal street (gay village) is "pretty buzzy" all the time, but so is our southside area (Arcadian, Hurst street) but apart from that Manchester city centre has a few little pockets of a few street where things are going on after 7 or 8pm ish but if you walk around the main shopping areas just like in Birmingham city centre, it is pretty quiet. So with regards this Italian restaurants opinion that Birmingham has not got the "Buzz" like Manchester, i really think he needs to get out a bit more and actually walk around the city to see what is going on.
I think too many people are too quick to say Manchester is better than Birmingham without really looking into it, and yes Manchester beat Birmingham this year to be the best city outside london for business, but Birmingham was the best place last year and every year the two cities leapfrog each other in one category or another.
I take these comments with a pinch of salt as i know loads of people who come into my place of work which is on New street and love coming to Birmingham becouse there is so much to do, had one couple who came in last week who were from Chorley (Lancashire) but there son lived in Henley in Arden and they make a point every time they visit there son to come to Birmingham on the bus all the way from Henley and love it.

Birmingham has just held the Autumn Conservative conference , how can people possibly say that there is not a "buzz" about the city, i certainly felt a buzz all week even though it caused some disruption to workers getting into the city, but this is the price we will all have to pay if we want Brum to be a place to be.
I heard that all the hotels were full, and restaurant and bars were doing a roaring trade.

And ive got to say that in the last couple of months what with that Historical visit by the Pope to Brum and all the very positive images of the city that the event gave and with last weeks Conservative party conference, Birmingham has never looked so "buzzing" since the late 90s

Next we have the joys of all the christmas events, Bring it on Brum.

Typhoon2000 said:

Birmingham is big.
Birmingham has a functional realism with a warm buzz that doesn't shout - you just kind of, well, know what's going on - where many from out of town that don't.

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I like the functional realism but even locals don't always know whats going on let alone visitors. In contrast though, it's been mentioned before on here i think, that as soon as say the council attempt to 'manage' or add their stamp it almost destroys the organic way what goes on here happens.

TimeOut do their London guides and it's almost like we could do with one or a way without the 'your in it or not' of guides that shows so much of what takes place.

I love the rich contrasts of what people call high culture and low culture, the music scene and creative scene, the rich mix of cultures.
There is so much to do that in a way a guide equally can't introduce you to it all but I do like the way you say for Birmingham it's never been a case of shouting - just a case of immersing yourself into it.

I guess for me it's the fine line between being a 'best kept secret' and a tourist hotspot.

BrumX, I have to say since moving to Birmingham I have found that living here is far from the ideal I thought it would be. When I commuted to the city for work I would always love to stay for a drink, but since moving here I have found people, in general, are aggressive and rude, especially those of Pakistani descent. Unfortunately, since being attacked on the bus, having my bike kicked senseless and idiots trying to pick fights whilst I've been out with my girlfriend I can say the city lacks a good vibe. The city doesn't have the buzz that you feel even in smaller cities like Leeds, hopefully this will change when the city centre continues it's expansion.

I believe the council have made a good move by informing the immigration service that they don't wish to receive anymore asylum seekers (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-11501640)

Unfortunatley for you m8, you have not had good experiences of the city and this would dent your overall feelings for the city, however in 2010 britain your experience could of happened in any other large town/city, and definately could of happened in a city like Leeds.

So in what way do you find Leeds more "buzzing" that Birmingham as i am interested to know becouse my experience is totally different. I have visited Leeds and in my opinion it lacks a "big" city feel and caters for students in a big way, which by the way i am not against, however Birmingham culturally offers so much more if you are prepared to look for it.