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2010
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I think it's time for a Perth Development thread; there's lots happening in the Town as it goes along in it's bid to become a City. :)


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Let's get started with the news that have P&K Council applied for permission to allow the demolision of City Hall, in order to open up a new "Civic Square" in Perth Town Centre.


Perth civic square plans on display

Plans for the creation of a new civic square in the centre of Perth are to be unveiled at an exhibition.

Perth and Kinross Council said it had submitted an application to demolish the current City Hall and build the square in its place.

The design uses St John's Kirk, one of Perth's most historically important buildings, as a focal point.

The proposals will be displayed in St John's Shopping Centre in Perth from 27 June to 3 July.

Councillors took the decision to demolish the City Hall in June 2010 following a public consultation.

Other options considered included doing nothing until the economic climate improves and re-using the building for another purpose.

'Long road'

But the council said the creation of a civic square had been supported by a "significant proportion of the public and local businesses".

The authority believes it will help attract more visitors and shoppers to Perth and boost the local economy.

It will also restore the space that originally existed around St John's, a spokesman said.

Council leader Ian Miller said: "This has been a very long road for the council and the Perth and Kinross public, and I am delighted that we are moving ever closer to the creation of a civic square that can be enjoyed by everyone.

"These proposals will significantly enhance the environment, culture and economy of Perth. We listened to local residents and businesses, and reacted to what they told us."

The Perthshire Chamber of Commerce welcomed the plans, saying it would provide a "true focal centre" for Perth.
More at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-13887015

14/03/2012 - Perth wins its bid to become a City! :cheers: Still lots to look forward to with regards to urban development, we are still waitng on what's happening with the central piazza and what about the Western Edge extension resulting in a few hundred new homes.
 

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Relaxed
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This does look worryingly like one of those buildings that people might later lament the loss off - is there no merit in it? Is there any sort of emotional attachment to it?

I can certainly see the benefits, particularly to Perth, of a city square, and this location does look like a great spot for one, but it is a bit surprising that this conclusion appears to have been arrived at apparently easily. Is there any controversy over this locally?
 

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2010
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This does look worryingly like one of those buildings that people might later lament the loss off - is there no merit in it? Is there any sort of emotional attachment to it?

I can certainly see the benefits, particularly to Perth, of a city square, and this location does look like a great spot for one, but it is a bit surprising that this conclusion appears to have been arrived at apparently easily. Is there any controversy over this locally?
This is Perth Town Hall right now.


http://www.thecourier.co.uk/img/photos/biz/photo_2910_wide_crop.jpg

It's a good enough building, square and study, but I don't think people would be sad to see it demolished, since it is an empty building right now, and it would benefit Perth to have a civic square, an area which would allow the town to hold larger Street Markets and to have a temporary winter ice rink.

It's widely regarded that should Perth town hall be demolished then the stone cherub gargoyles would be removed from the wall heads (and possibly used as street furniture in the new civic square?).

There are currently a few (proper!) coffee shops with outdoor seating around the Hall just now so if it got opened up to be a civic area, with the lines of trees around the perimeter it would look very classy and European!

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Town Centre Upgrades for Pedestrian Boulevards

Phase 1 of the boulevard upgrades, including new street lighting and seating, and replacing the brick and concrete slab streets with natural stone is well underway.

Perth High Street environmental improvements get underway

Long-awaited environmental improvements in Perth city centre are now underway, with the aim of enhancing the High Street and King Edward Street area for residents, businesses, shoppers and visitors alike.

The works are being carried out by contractors RJ MacLeod, improving the underlying structure of the street and resurfacing it, as well as replacing street furniture including seating and lighting. Natural stone will be used to enhance the street surfaces.

The improvements will be delivered in phases, which began on Monday 21st February 2011 on the section of King Edward Street from the High Street to St John's Place. These works are anticipated to last until late April.

Subsequent phases will run as follows:

- Late April to early August: High Street from King Edward Street to Scott Street
- Early August to early November: High Street from King Edward Street to Kirkgate
- Early November to late December: High Street, from Kirkgate to George Street, and from Scott Street to South Methven Street
More at: http://www.pkc.gov.uk/Council+and+g...t+environmental+improvements+get+underway.htm
 

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Passionately Apathetic
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What an awful idea - let's create something of civic pride by destroying another piece of civic pride, one of the best in Perth! The demolition of the halls wouldn't even create that impressive a public space. I can see where they're coming from wrt the cross, but it's still a foolish idea in my opinion. Demolishing the block that includes Ladbrokes would be a slightly less awful idea in that the square would include both St.John's Kirk and the halls.

Is a square really that incredible a thing to have? I think not.
 

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I've been puzzled by this for some time now - it's a solid, handsome building whose demolition would be a huge waste environmentally, if nothing else. As seems to be the case these days, the inability to find any use for it makes me think that there's a paucity of imagination at work here.

It also strikes me that this is perhaps some kind of vanity project amongst those in charge, rather like the ongoing situation with Aberdeen's Union Terrace Gardens. They appear to have rather lofty ambitions for this square as being some kind of panacea that's being pursued with fervour. Are both residents and visitors really wandering around thinking "nice place, but really needs a square..."??
 

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2010
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Perth City Centre Campaign have offered their solution to the civic square/town hall dilema with their own set of plans. The group of former council members and some well known local entrepreneurs have struck a compromise which sees part of the building retained, as well as a smaller civic square. This plan would take the same time to complete as the "full demo" idea shown above, but would cost a couple of million pounds more, which may count against this plan.

Group reveals design that would see part of Perth City Hall retained




On the day Perth and Kinross Council applied to demolish Perth City Hall to make way for a civic square, an alternative vision of the future for the heart of the town was unveiled.

Perth City Centre Campaign (PCCC) — a group headed by former MEP James Provan — stepped forward with a proposal that would retain a section of the listed Edwardian hall.

"Our view is that complete demolition would be a serious mistake, but we do share with you the ambition of creating a civic square," state the group in an open letter to councillors.

"In our view that square should be formed in St John's Place, between St John's Kirk to the east and the retained, original 'front' part of the city hall facing King Edward Street to the west."

The PCCC, which includes prominent businessmen and former council officials among its number, believes its plan should at least be considered "before any irrevocable decisions are taken."

It says the retained section of the hall, about one fifth of the structure, could be used for tourism or heritage purposes, bringing a focus to the town centre.
More at:http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Pe...uld-see-part-of-perth-city-hall-retained.html
 

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Hipster Scum
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What the hell are they thinking? Just looking at google maps I can see a dozen surface carparks in the city centre that could be utilised? Why can't they pedestrianise around the City Hall ala Royal Exchange Square? Must be great to live in a town that can demolish it's heritage willy nilly.
 

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Silent
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I agree indiekid, it is crazy destroying a decent building they could have christmas markets around the building and would add charm not the other way around.
 

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What in the name of the wee man are they thinking of knocking the town hall down for?

Perth hasn't got the reject councillors from 1960-70's Glasgow by any chance?

:eek:hno:
 

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They cant be serious. It would be criminal to demolish that fine building. There must be strong opposition to this locally surely?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
P&K Council Civic Square Renders








Article on public opinion of town hall demolition

It seems people want to keep it because it looks nice, but want it demolished because they would rather the council momey be spent on something other than finding a use for the hall. Can't have cake and eat it I'm afraid...

Plans to demolish Perth City Hall unveiled
(edit: not breaking news - just a relevant article on public opinion from 11 June 2011)



Plans to demolish Perth's historic city hall and create a civic square in its place have been unveiled.

The local authority said that if given the go-ahead the £3m plan would deliver "significant benefits and economic growth" to the city.

A public consultation, which attracted 2,738 responses, found 43% of the public and 52% of business in favour.

"Re-use options would also require significant public subsidy, which was not supported by the majority of respondents and are unlikely to be affordable."
More at:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10293226

It's a shame they can't knock down the Woolworth's building and plug the gap on the highstreet with the facade of the town hall!! :/
 

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smalltown boy
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Despite having changed buses and trains in Perth numerous times, I've never actually been to the city. I decided to look at it in Google maps, and was left wondering: why did it develop almost entirely on one side of the river?
 

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They cant be serious. It would be criminal to demolish that fine building. There must be strong opposition to this locally surely?
Surprisingly little, it seems. The building has been empty and argued over for so long, I think he locals are just sick of the thing.

I'm all for chaining myself to the front of the Halls when the bulldozers arrive. It'd be an incredibly sorry sight to see it go, on a par with the civic vandalism which took place before my time. Particularly when the objective is to create a drab-looking civic square with some mediocre buildings on either side and a historic-but-architecturally-underwhelming church as the focal point.

The Perth City Centre Campaign plan would find a good compromise between the two options. Still, I don't see why they don't just pedestrianise the streets around the City Halls (aside from the front, obviously), perhaps install more open glass sides to it and work from there.

There's already a lot of underutilised space around the building anyway:

 

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Passionately Apathetic
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Despite having changed buses and trains in Perth numerous times, I've never actually been to the city. I decided to look at it in Google maps, and was left wondering: why did it develop almost entirely on one side of the river?
Good point Mac Coinnich, although like yourself I've rarely visited it other than while northering home, I have wondered this myself before. The east side of the river, if my memory serves me well, seems dominated by large detached housing? The terrain to the east of the river also seems a bit more upland, although not to the extend that it would influence the shape of the place.
 

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2010
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I was in Perth yesterday, so got to see what's been happening on the highstreet.

They have ripped up the black and orange monoblocking all the way down the highstreet, and have put black stone rectangles down both sides of the highstreet - about a pavement's width either side, the middle 2 way road's with is still getting worked on, but there is a small section at the river end of the highstreet - where work
has been completed, showing that the middle is coloured small rectangles of granite.

Red-pink and silver-white granite flanked by black granite, it looks pretty smart.

All the street furniture has been removed, so no Maid of Perth or 'Nae day say dark' statues, benches, or tree planters. They will be installed once the granite paving is done, and they have left gaps to plant trees down each side of the black grantie to create a more posh boulevard, presumably.

The old Woolies building is being worked on, hoarding is up and posters saying the building has been let to 'New Look' and 'Next' - both of which already have stores more or less next door, and Perth will be losing a 'Jane Norman' store from it's mall so I beleive, if it hasn't already.
 

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Knocking down that building is ridiculous. There are plenty of open spaces in Perth for markets and things like that. The idea that an empty square is more beneficial than that town hall building is lunacy. Town squares might look okay on graphics and plans, but they are rarely utilised for anything at all.
 

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What the hell are they thinking? Just looking at google maps I can see a dozen surface carparks in the city centre that could be utilised? Why can't they pedestrianise around the City Hall ala Royal Exchange Square? Must be great to live in a town that can demolish it's heritage willy nilly.
I yesterday saw a programme about this topic. I was exactly the same thinking about those car parks. The current urbanism and architecture in UK and Scotland is so unbelievable stupid. This kind of demolishment in a time of making ugly modern (worst Europe) or pseudo luxurious fake old houses, unbelievable. Very very bad!

I also saw a plan of new communities at the West side of Perth. I imagine that the responsible will present it as Eco communities, but there would be nothing Eco about it. This is because those communities will become very dependent of cars. It becomes more difficult for kids to go to school, people cannot easily go to the basic amenities, and it will become a soulless suburbia at the times when people are working. Besides, it also shreds the beautiful scenery of landscape. A totally horror!
 

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and another comment:

Are there in the demolishment plan ideas for the surrounded buildings, like opening the ground floor for public or did they forget that? If they forget that it is too simple to draw a square with hundreds of people on it like in the renders. No critical thinking...
 
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