Piccadilly To Victoria Direct Rail Link | Ordsall Curve

Viscount702 said:

Unfortunately I don't know how it is all intended to work. I know what I think will happen but this won't include grade separation. I hope I am wrong because without it the whole arrangement will be messy. That is the conflicting movements will have moved from Piccadilly to the Ordsall curve area.

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One of the findings of Northern Hub was just that: you need to do something with Ordsall Lane Junction to get it all to work. Sadly grade separation of this junction is costly and not without a few issues, but I'm sure the GRIP3 designers will sort it all out. What happens to Salford Central remains the subject of debate, shall it have 2, 4 or even six platforms?

Elsewhere (thread-wise) I noticed comments about Vic-Staly electrification; this makes sense as the more Liverpool-Manchester electrics you don't turn back at Manchester (Picc or Vic) the more capacity at Picc/ Vic improves. Ferpection would be running all Liverpool - Manchester electrics through to Leeds. You'd only electrify Guide Bridge - Stalybridge as a diversionary route, because it's the slower way round to Stalybridge.

There are plenty of references to Salford Central having platforms so the Liverpool- Victoria trains and the Piccadilly Victoria trains can stop and I am sure this will be accommodated some how. The majority of the talk has been about adding two platforms on the current Liverpool lines. There seems to be room but I am not familiar enough with the layout to say what is or is not possible. I have not heard of 6 platforms Where would 3 4 5 and 6 be if they were to be built.

There were or are to be some new west facing bays at Victoria. I don't know where but I believe on the north side. However if you electrified to Stalybridge you could terminate more there and perhaps in so doing reduce the need for new bays at Victoria or at some of them.

I didn't think were to be any Liverpool Piccadilly electrics or at least any that would terminate at Piccadilly.

Viscount702 said:

I have not heard of 6 platforms Where would 3 4 5 and 6 be if they were to be built.

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Salford Central already has 4 platforms but only 1 & 2 are in use. The track at 3 & 4 was taken up a long time ago. There have never been platforms on the Liverpool line but there is enough room to include them, they would be 5 & 6.

I've just come home to a flyer from Network Rail advising of the public consultation on the Ordsall Chord.





http://www.northernhub.co.uk/Northern_Hub_Consultation_Launches.aspx

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/north/Ordsall-Chord.aspx

Originally posted this in the electrification thread by mistake, as I am obviously really over-excited as this feels like progress at long last.

trinityboy said:

I've just come home to a flyer from Network Rail advising of the public consultation on the Ordsall Chord.

Originally posted this in the electrification thread by mistake, as I am obviously really over-excited as this feels like progress at long last.

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I've not seen this before!

hulmeman2 said:

I've not seen this before!

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Does anybody know if the four-tracking through Standedge Tunnel (using the two disused tunnels) is still on?

Neil

fallowfield_fergy said:

Does anybody know if the four-tracking through Standedge Tunnel (using the two disused tunnels) is still on?

Neil

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It looks that way! Six four track stations too!

hulmeman2 said:

It looks that way! Six four track stations too!

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Oh joy! Things are looking up!

A very interesting report on the presently-disused tunnels here: http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=38135

Here's looking-forward to the first train through. Also interesting to see four-tracking through Chinley. Just like the old days!

Neil (feeling a bit old)

Only thing it misses off is a northbound link from Earlestown to Wigan.

That and the Southport and Kirkby lines... lol, I think its just concentrating on showing Manchester and immediate surrounds.

" a new 1km section of track"

that sounds like a rather longer new viaduct than we have been assuming; I presume to allow grade separation west of MOSI.

Quite a few line speed improvements I wasn't aware of.

The ones to Chester and Sheffield will be very welcome!

I think a lot of it is relying on the greater acceleration of electrification to produce the higher line speeds rather than direct track interventions.

There was a good article on the Ordsall Chord and the role in plays in the Northern Hub in July's Rail Engineer - I've obviously been falling behind with my reading again...

http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1swz5/RailEngineerJuly2011/resources/14.htm

WatcherZero said:

I think a lot of it is relying on the greater acceleration of electrification to produce the higher line speeds rather than direct track interventions.

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But there are various routes - such as the one from Stockport through the Disley tunnel and the one through Marple, meeting at Chinley along the Hope Valley - which are not AFAIK going to be electrified but are denoted as having line-speed improvements. How does that work?

They are gaining passing loops so faster trains can overtake slower services. They are no longer limited to the speed of the slowest service.

trinityboy said:

There was a good article on the Ordsall Chord and the role in plays in the Northern Hub in July's Rail Engineer - I've obviously been falling behind with my reading again...

http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1swz5/RailEngineerJuly2011/resources/14.htm

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Thank you for that. Now I have a big picture understanding of how important these improvements are.

Braided Junction

Somewhere in my mental attic I recall Modern Railways publishing a diagram for a braided junction at Ordsall Lane/Windsor Bridge Junction. Is that plan back in the frame - as they may need to rebuild bridges on the Windsor Link anyway for electrification - it makes sense to consider it. N'est pas?

WatcherZero said:

They are gaining passing loops so faster trains can overtake slower services. They are no longer limited to the speed of the slowest service.

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Are therse all going to be station based?

Will there be any single track left? So ridiculous for the main Manchester - Sheffield route!

cle said:

Are therse all going to be station based?

Will there be any single track left? So ridiculous for the main Manchester - Sheffield route!

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The one bit of single track is through Dore station - the plan is to redouble it there.