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Veteran of the meme war
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^^Don't spam in here. You ignore my points and talk incoherently. That's spamming. I refuse to discuss how foregin words should be spelled, stupid quotes and semantics, relativity of length and relatively insulting(and absolutely insulting) quotes from your side.

Not to be OT: Candidature is not common, it is Polish with venues in Slovakia, the rules don't allow common candidature and organisation. Get your facts straight.

PS: I stated that most of Carpathians are in RO/SVK because you were talking about Slovakia and advertising of Tatras through the Olympics. I implied that all those venues are in Low Tatras, which are separated by Váh Basin from High Tatras and have nothing in common, hence people are not "discovering the unique joint Polish and Slovak Tatras", they are discovering Tatras that have in common with Polish Tatras only the name and are part of the same global mountaineous region called "Carpathians"(they are also geologically different). I implied that by "Carpathians" and "Tatras" we don't mean only the High Tatras that are on Slovak/Polish border. Saying what you were saying is implying that you don't know that or you are trying to hyperbolize the importance of Polish Tatras(in the olympics).

Russia made Olympic games at an otherwise summer resort. No infrastructure, not just sport infrastructure, but any kind of infrastructure existed before the games there. Add corruption to that too and the fact they wanted to impress like China. Slovakia and Poland wouldn't have to spend that much, not at all.
Let me say it once again - "It would be great to host Olympiad in Cracow and Tatras. All those places complement each other and can create an unique event. Not by spending billions of dollars like in Sochi but by showing our hospitality, highland folklore of Spis, Orava, Podhale, local cuisines and our similar but different cultures. No one will lose, all can win".
Let ME say it again:
see the London's olympic cost - $14 billion! Thats roughly 10billion €. For comparison, the budget for building LHC was 7,1bn € and yearly budget of CERN is only 1bn €. Cost of construction of LGV Est, which is 300km HSR line at 320km speed is approx. 4bn €, which implies that 100km of LGV track on mildly hilly and lowland terrain is 1,3bn €. ESA yearly budget is 4,3bn €, from which they fund building their rockets, ISS collaboration, building of various scientific satellites, research in avionics and rocket science and building launchpads for new rockets. The all new Kingdom Tower is expected to cost less than 0,8bn €(4bn SR)!
That can't possibly be profitable. All those articles about profits from OG are taking into account the "profit for economy", which are huge numbers, however, they are imaginary(not as ∈ ℂ), they go only to those big companies that own those hotels and ski centers. The only one who will get rich from it is Metrostav/Doprastav/Váhostav and J&T. The state will be in bigger debt than ever.
London had EVERYTHING, stadiums, infrastructure, large Wimbledon complex of tennis stadiums that have NO COMPARISON in the world. For ilustration:

They still wasted 10bn €. And there is almost no corruption in UK!
 

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Grad Oblakodera
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There is no corruption in terms of corrupt police officers and such but London is the center of financial manipulations. I am sure a large chunk of that was money laundering.

And even if it wasn't, I don't see how they "wasted" it. You get new roads, airports, railways, stadiums, parks, bicycle lanes. How is that a waste? Yes surely you could also have an own Slovak LHC and CERN or launch a satellite and build a supertall in Bratislava but it's a matter of choice. Someone could also claim how they have no use from the collider, rockets and skyscrapers like they have no use from stadiums and transport infrastructure. And no one wants to invest in something that wouldn't be profitable such as a 300km/h railway across Slovakia.
 

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^^We dont need huge stadiums needed to organise olympics, in fact, NOBODY needs them, those stadiums are so huge and expensive to operate that most of olympic stadiums built are deserted or downgraded. In fact, just look at the article on the previous page. There is a nice photogallery of deserted Olympic venues around the world. If the Olympics were organised in our country, they would get deserted after the olympics. Infrastructure is no argument at all, because that infrastructure you are talking about would be buildt with or without the Olympics, the Olympics only makes it overpriced as hell because they have to complete their construction "quickly".
I am pretty damn sure there is less corruption and tunneling going on in UK than in Slovakia. Much less.
 

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I couldn't agree with you more :) Greetings from Poland :cheers:
In fact Polish Prime Minister has already said that some investments in sport infrastructure, like modernization of ski jumping venues in Zakopane, new covered skating track and some cross country skiing trails, will be made apart from Olympics. Surely it's not waste of money. Sport together with culture and art is important as much as science, factories and banks.

New sport hall for 15 k is being built in Cracow. Wisła Kraków stadium (35k) needs some modernization but surely it won't cost billions.

Slovakia has very good ski infrastructure, prepared for big sport events.

The biggest costs are related with lack of proper communication infrastructure between Cracow, Zakopane and Slovakia. This has to be solved even without Olympics. S7 expressway on Polish side is a necessity not a whim. I understand Slovakia isn't the most populated country but downwards we've got Hungary and others. Close economic and political cooperation needs such infrastructure.

In my opinion Olympics can only help to achieve the goals.

Of course we can spend huge amounts of money pretending superpowers like some others do. This shouldn't be our proposition for sportsmen, visitors and Olympic Committee.
 

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Sport together with culture and art is important as much as science
No, it is'nt. You can't cure illness with culture, art and sport, you can't do a brain surgery with a degree from art school, you can't make a new NMR scan, can't create a nanolayer of biologic material on an artificial bone that is about to be implanted to a car crash victim so that his/her body will accept that bone.
I pasted here cost of LHC. Don't forget that cost includes: new superconducting materials, materials that are used in MRI scans, maglevs or just any regular electric cable that needs to transport very high current; new deposition methods - depositing very thin layers of various materials onto some surface - the bone example, but also has uses in glasses, contact lenses, even windshields of cars(hydrophobic layers); GRID - multicore computing optimalisation methods that make even your smartphone "smart"; new single photon detection systems - usable in PET scans or very sensitive night visions; or some early projects - neutrino radios - sending signals even through miles of solid rock and many more if we went to depth.

There are two plans for highways to poland, both have some tunnels planned. The truth is, that they are not needed. If the existing road was repaired, it could serve another ten years without anyone complaining(maybe we could do with one or two more bypasses, like, everyone needs bypasses, right?). We dont even have two biggest cities connected. Be sure that someone would pass the construction of this expendable highway if there was olympics for ten times the "original" twice overpriced cost. There will be constructions of meaningless overpriced stuff that will not bring anything to the region, because it will be another Potemkin's village. Olympics costing only 1,5 bn €(as advertized) is pure fantasy.

Economic cooperation with Hungary? You are joking, right? Their economy is in worse shape than ours!
 

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YIM.BA
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Plus ratio quam vis, I thing you already found an answer...

What's the point of saying such truisms? Smells like complexes.
I would be surprised from Ondro to read such arguments and irrational fear from this, but then I read all this Czecho-slovak animosity discussion two pages before...

Btw. projected expenditures for Slovakia are 177mil€...mostly for the new roads, hospital in Liptovský Mikuláš and building of a small Olympic village (which could be, if the project's done wisely, rebuilt onto the private houses or hotels). 177mil€ is nothing.
 

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177mil€ is nothing.
Matter of priorities.

There are thousands of more important things where Slovakia could spend this kind of money.

Which can easily become much more - as all slovakian projects under ,,Smer'' organisation are hugely overpriced thanx to everyday common intense corruption.

But, from where I stand I can see that poor underpaid people in Slovakia, together with underdeveloped education, health system and whole country falling apart means much less to you then spending all money on shiny new projects which suppose to prove to the whole world how great, rich and developed country we are.

Same, as Russia in Sochi.

We aren't.
And thanx to you and people like you we are never going to be.

Country, who spends more money on building Potemkin's villages rather then on it's people and it's own needs will never be as successful and rich as countries which do otherwise.
 

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I would be surprised from Ondro to read such arguments and irrational fear from this, but then I read all this Czecho-slovak animosity discussion two pages before...
I don't quite understand you, but hey, did you read the important part? That what was was... The point is, that all you could say is, that I don't like the politics of common state in 1945-1989. I don't like politics of czech and slovak republic now, but czechs are more liberal and open to other countries. I also don't like German politics, because their power grid is relying on Czech power grid on west of the country, where they need to compensate power fluctuations from Czech nuclear power plants and blah blah blah... Would I say that Germans and not German politics are responsible for power fluctuations in west Czech power grid? Yes. Does it mean that I hate German people? No. Or Austria - forcing other countries to close their NPPs without realizing that not everybody has the capacity to generate 70% of their power from water. Or another example: Beneš Decretes: Would it be czech-slovak animosity if I said that Czechs didn't like Sudeten Germans? No. Why would it be? Beneš is not in the politics, is not alive anymore... If I did hate czechs, I wouldn't be living here, don't you think? It does not even mean that I dislike the whole politic spectrum of a country, just a single aspect, I actually like Austrian and German politics as a whole. I also like polish people, I LOVE travelling Polish trains, because they are quality ones. Sometimes I also mock czechs and polish. Does that mean that I hate them? No, I just mock them, they mock me back, I mock myself, they mock themselves we all laugh. Dude, the problem of people on the interwebz is, that they take things too seriously, they think that all is personal. There is nothing personal on my general statements, world is not turning around you, you egomaniacs, get your head out of your asses :p If I hated Polish people, I would continue insulting plus ratio quam vis after he said
I mean thinking of Cracow you think of Tatras. Standing on Tatra's peaks you feel the Cracow's genius loci. This is an obvious fact for anyone who had an opportunity to taste Cracow.
then I would be nationalistic moron. Did you read my reply?
PS: I stated that most of Carpathians are in RO/SVK because you were talking about Slovakia and advertising of Tatras through the Olympics. I implied that all those venues are in Low Tatras, which are separated by Váh Basin from High Tatras and have nothing in common, hence people are not "discovering the unique joint Polish and Slovak Tatras", they are discovering Tatras that have in common with Polish Tatras only the name and are part of the same global mountaineous region called "Carpathians"(they are also geologically different). I implied that by "Carpathians" and "Tatras" we don't mean only the High Tatras that are on Slovak/Polish border. Saying what you were saying is implying that you don't know that or you are trying to hyperbolize the importance of Polish Tatras(in the olympics).
He was obviously trying to hyperbolize the need of cooperation of Poland and Slovakia when organising the Olympics. But there is no need of cooperation from Slovak side, people in Slovakia don't want them at any cost, we are not the ones that came up with the idea of organising them, we did not ask Polish prime minister for cooperation. :p If we wanted to candidate, we could do it on our own(well, we couldn't, because we don't have the money to organise such megalomanic idea, but naturally, there are all venues we need in Slovakia to organise them, some of them just need repairs, we obviously would have to build an Olympic stadium, but except that we have all it needs, Poland is someone who does not have something we have and we should not let them have it for free, we should negotiate for good terms, that is how business and politics work, I think that Slovak-Polish international relations are good enough to negotiate, they like us, we like them, so there is no reason not to negotiate, plus, there are no treaties to sign, no real profit from us having good relations with each other, another thing is that there is a diplomatic way to negotiate and have both, better relations and better deal).
Note that he also missused the word "Carpathian", so I think he really does not know what we are talking about("Carpathians" slovak "Karpaty" is not a member of some nation, it is A MOUNTAIN RANGE for god's sake, you can't say "Carpathian", well you can, but then it means A MOUNTAIN, not a dude! Like Gerlachovský Peak is a Carpathian!).
only Carpathians with bad intentions could understand it as an insult.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpathian_Mountains
(I never thought about it, but which of the peaks have bad intentions? Maybe Rysy? Or Lomnický Peak? I can imagine them starting an avalanche when a tourists are on their slopes, like "THERE YOU GO MOTHAFUKAS, NO ONE CAN CLIMB ME, I GOTTA BAD INTENTIONS, BIATCH!" :D :D :D :D )
It was a reaction to this:
"Tatras are boring" is demagogy, the worst argument ever and an insult(to Carpathians, if you say it, you certainly were never in neither part of High Tatras
I did not mean a nation by "Carpathians", no such nation exist, I am not a "Carpathian", then I would be a mountain, you can say in an insult that I am a "Carpathian", but then I'm a mountain, I can live with that :D :p
 

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say NO to debil
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Na olympiáde Jebko s Trtkom zarobia viac, než na nejakom trápnom svetovom pohári.
standartny podnikatel by zarobil omnoho, omnoho viac na stredisku, kde sa pravidelne organizuju preteky svetoveho pohara, ako na stredisku, kde sa jednorazovo uskutocni nejaka monstrakcia.
lenze jaaty. stat im predsa kvoli monstrakcii vybuduje toto a toto a toto, stat ich kvoli monstrakcii podpori a zadotuje a zaplati a prispeje...
 

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www.fotokosice.eu
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Štandardný podnikateľ je rád za každého zákazníka a nebude dávať do médií hlášky, že zázkaníkov, čo mu budú celý deň len smrdieť na zjazdovke, on nepotrebuje.
 

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In fact Polish Prime Minister has already said that some investments in sport infrastructure, like modernization of ski jumping venues in Zakopane, new covered skating track and some cross country skiing trails, will be made apart from Olympics. Surely it's not waste of money. Sport together with culture and art is important as much as science, factories and banks.
Yet since couple of years we are spending to much of public money in Poland for professional sport and cultural venues. The balance has been disrupted. Secondly to much goes for big events instead of sport of the masses. Personally I support any investment directed to cultivation of sport culture of regular people at amateur level. At the same time since a long time I'm very critical about organisations lik IOC, UEFA or FIFA. For a long time this circus they organize is not much about sport but more about exploit countries wich are stupid enough to start in the race where the price it to be robbed.

And by the way I really don't see a point of throwing millions to build new covered skating track just because there is few guys in Poland who likes skating... It is enough we will have to pay part of retirement of one of those guys just because it happens he skates fast and we have moronic law.

Basically I hope that Euro 2012 was first and the last of any among the biggest international sport events that took place in our country - ever - because such an event is nothing more than throwing money away. Anyway, I do not want rant about it here - I droped by only to support Ondro position.
 

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...I implied that all those venues are in Low Tatras, which are separated by Váh Basin from High Tatras and have nothing in common, hence people are not "discovering the unique joint Polish and Slovak Tatras"
I don't think visitors who possibly will come for the Olympics will restrain themselves from travelling between different venues and other interesting places in both countries. Distances are short. Big part of guests will arrive to Cracow and then they will go to Zakopane and Slovakia. Moreover some of them will come back after the Games encouraged by first visit to see more (that was the case after the Euro 2012 in Poland). Surely they will discover the crown of Carpathians.

London had EVERYTHING, stadiums, infrastructure, large Wimbledon complex of tennis stadiums that have NO COMPARISON in the world. They still wasted 10bn €...
The London Olympic "village" was built from the scratch in a neglected and devastated part of east London. Actually new London borough has been built with full municipal infrastructure. Besides they've spend lots of money on public safety during the Olympics ( bombings in 2005 ).

No, it is'nt. You can't cure illness with culture, art and sport, you can't do a brain surgery with a degree from art school, you can't make a new NMR scan, can't create a nanolayer of biologic material on an artificial bone that is about to be implanted to a car crash victim so that his/her body will accept that bone.
Obviously culture, sport and art can't do that. Only people can do that. Educated, skilled and wishing to live a comfortable life in an interesting place.
And that's what culture, sport and art can do. Attract them to create a nanolayer and other stuff here, not somewhere else.

Economic cooperation with Hungary?
With Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Republic (Vysehrad states) and others.

Note that he also missused the word "Carpathian"
You're right I've misused the word. Since English is not my native language I'm allowed to do such terrible things from time to time. Fortunately a correction was made thanks to vigilance of Ondro.

I also like polish people...
Nice to read that.

...they like us, we like them...
Confirm. I do like Slovaks and I think I'm not alone. So sweet...
Having this in mind we've got no choice - let's then do the Olympics together.:cheers:
 

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Obviously culture, sport and art can't do that. Only people can do that. Educated, skilled and wishing to live a comfortable life in an interesting place.
And that's what culture, sport and art can do. Attract them to create a nanolayer and other stuff here, not somewhere else.
Those people are not attracted to sport, culture and art, those people are attracted by possibilities of their research. A plasma deposition chamber costs roughly 100 000€. Do you expect the scientists to buy it on their own from our crappy 500€ average salary? For example: In Prague, we have three scientific nuclear reactors that are researching posibilities of development of currently used russian VVER reactors. Scientists from Germany, England, Hungary and Slovakia are taking part in research on them. They were not attracted by art or culture. Or just go to Genéve and see what economic benefits did the research center brought to the local economy. And it is not a single economic boost, effect of which will decay rapidly over time(two years after the olympics no one will even know some hellhole called Slovakia).


Confirm. I do like Slovaks and I think I'm not alone. So sweet...
Having this in mind we've got no choice - let's then do the Olympics together.:cheers:
Eeeh, by this I meant the international relations and pollitical alliance, offcourse it is strenghtened by positive attitude of citizens, but it does not rely on it. ;)
 

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...And by the way I really don't see a point of throwing millions to build new covered skating track just because there is few guys in Poland who likes skating... It is enough we will have to pay part of retirement of one of those guys just because it happens he skates fast and we have moronic law...
As you've said they skate fast ( bronze medal men and silver women in Sochi). Because of the "moronic" law our Ministry of Sport is financing them and still will be. The question is, what is the point of paying for a rent to other countries who have built such tracks ? Wouldn't it be better to have one in Poland and take charges from foreigners ?

.Secondly to much goes for big events instead of sport of the masses. Personally I support any investment directed to cultivation of sport culture of regular people at amateur level.
Government announced a plan of building winter version of "Orliki" (to Slovakian friends info what are Orliki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlik_2012). Hope it'll come true and become a success like summer Orliki.
btw ice-skating is a very popular form of activity in Netherlands, maybe thanks to the project it'll be the same in Poland. In this case some decent ice-skating hall appears as a sensible investment though it is a matter of future.

Plus ratio quam vis, I thing you already found an answer...
No reason for complexes. I've been in Slovakia many times and I adore beauty of the country. :cheers:
 

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http://liptov.sme.sk/c/7120773/najviac-penazi-by-bolo-treba-na-vybudovanie-ciest-a-parkovisk.html

"Príprava na účasť Jasnej na Zimnej olympiáde by stála Slovensko 177 miliónov eur.

Väčšinu, až 169 miliónov, by si vyžiadala modernizácia cestnej infraštruktúry, výstavba olympijskej dediny, ale aj dobudovanie nemocnice v Liptovskom Mikuláši."

"Najnákladnejšie bude zabezpečenie dopravnej infraštruktúry. Na základe predbežných odhadov by si opravy súčasných ciest a výstavby nových úsekov vrátane parkovísk vyžiadali viac ako 101 miliónov eur. Týka sa to najmä ciest v Liptovskom Mikuláši a Demänovskej Doline.

Čítajte viac: http://liptov.sme.sk/c/7120773/najviac-penazi-by-bolo-treba-na-vybudovanie-ciest-a-parkovisk.html#ixzz2uyRdv1xK"

Pre tých čo plakali že sa bude dotovať stredisko tak len 8 miliónov by šlo do strediska, a konečne poriadna fin. injekcia by šla do ciest na Liptove.
 

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www.fotokosice.eu
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Cesty bude stavať (tipujem) Váhostav, v zdravotníctve točí biznis jeden nemenovaný predseda parlamentu okupujúci jeden park v Košiciach, no a o Jebkovi s Trtkom sa tu už popísalo dosť...

Respektíve to skrátim: Všetky cesty vedú na Súmračnú :)
 

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say NO to debil
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nie. tak inak povedane, nikto tu nerozporuje potrebu opravy nejakych ciest na liptove, ci inde. ale su tu vyhrady voci tomu, aby sa pod zamienkou nejakej monsrtakcie za statne peniaze vytvarala infrastruktura, ktora bude sluzit primarne potrebam sukromnych lyziarskych resortov, ktorych majitelia do tejto infrastruktury nie su ochotni investovat ani cent zo svojho. plus, ako vedlajsi efekt, este sa aj pri realizacii - ved predsa sme v casovom sklze a podobne - zvezu zasa ti spravni realizatori.
preco by mal parkoviska v demanovskej doline platit niekto iny ako ti, ktori tam tie parkoviska potrebuju pre svoj biznis? preco by tito podnikatelia nemali prispiet na rekonstrukcie ci vybudovanie ciest, po ktorych im maju prichadzat ich zakaznici?
tu sa nejedna o rekonstrukciu cesty, po ktorej chodis svojim neoffroadom do roboty, tu sa jedna cisto o infrastrukturu pre JT.
 
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