Positive or Negative?

This is a very complex issue. Unlike so many other issues of our day, it can't easily be broken down by the pundits on cable news as a Republican-Democrat thing or a clear black and white issue.

On the one hand, the illegal immigrants are continuing the long and proud American tradition of immigrants coming to this country, working hard and building wealth to achieve their piece of the "American dream." I don't think anyone can deny that they contribute greatly to the American economy by performing the work at the very bottom of the ladder.

On the other hand, their presence is a smack in the face to the many, many people all over the world who struggle for years to gain legal entry into the US. Is it fair to the many Africans, Asians and others who want to emigrate to the US but don't necessarily have the option of "sneaking across the border?"

The protests that have happened in Milwaukee and many other cities large and small all over the United States are inspiring. Here we have a whole generation of new Americans, exercising their right as residents of the greatest country on earth to assemble peacably in the streets.

One of the signs that was commonly seen at the Milwaukee rally was "No Somos Criminales" ..... we are not criminals. I agree. For the most part these folks aren't criminals in the sense that a bank robber or a murderer is a criminal. But they have knowingly broken the law, and there has to be some reprucussion for that.

A generation of new Americans excersizing their right to protest, a right that they ironically do not have because they aren't citizens. I understand their concern, but I don't understand why they suddenly think they have the right to have a say in what we do with them now. Citizens can protest or support certain plans over others, but the illegal immigrants are like the little boy in the principal's office- the school has to get with his parents and decide on what to do with him. He doesn't really have a say in what his consequences are.

I understand why illegal immigrants come to this country. And it is true that they play an important role in our economy, and I feel are are a welcome addition to our culture. But they are ILLEGAL immigrants. Why are we worried about protecting the rights of those who presence here is by definition against the law? If the government wants to vastly increase the numbers of people from Mexico and Latin Am. that are allowed into the US legally, I'm all for it and would welcome the addition to our country. But a nation has a need and a right to manage immigration, and associated with that is a need and right to expect that people who cross the border do so by legal means and that those who violate the law to get here shouldn't be pandered to. I'm all for the immigrants who are in this country, I'm just against the means by which some of them got here.

the illegal immigrants come here because they want a better life for their children. the reason they do it illegally is that the legal routes to immigration are long, difficult and very restrictive. most of the americans who are so hateful of these illegal immigrants would probably do the same exact thing for their children if they were in their shoes.

i feel that, with the signing of NAFTA, any canadian, mexican, or american should be able to live where ever they so choose within our 3 nations.

I wonder if there is a different persona in the south on this topic. Most Americans think people that sneak the border just walk right across or hide in someone's car. Well it may be true in certian instances, but now with the fence they built/building the illegal immigrants must "sneak" through the desert..hot dry no water no aid...several of the people in the desert die. So now some cristian activist group has set up alot of aid to the illegal immigrants along the border. There was a case of an immigrant dieing, i need of medical attention, so the humane thing to do for a member of this group was to rush them to the hospital....well the border patrol people did not like that .... forcing the immigrant back into Mexico, and now pressing charges on the activists. Just an example of how inhumane people can be. America was built as a "free" nation, and now were developing these signifigant borders....


anyways anyone have populations in your city/

Since most of you are OBSESSED with inflating your populations, the illegals really help you out since the majority of the midwestern cities are in decline.

If it wasn't them, most of these midwestern towns would show absolutely ZERO growth, and probably big losses.

Thank them for allowing you to brag about your populations.

I agree that the plight of the immigrant is not pretty. It is also beyond doubt that our economy needs these people. Is anyone at the national level even discussing vastly raising LEGAL immigration totals so that people who want a better life can get in AND we can better moniter who is getting in. It seems that if there was a viable way to enter the country people wouldn't have to risk life and limb.

style515 said:

Since most of you are OBSESSED with inflating your populations, the illegals really help you out since the majority of the midwestern cities are in decline.

If it wasn't them, most of these midwestern towns would show absolutely ZERO growth, and probably big losses.

Thank them for allowing you to brag about your populations.

Click to expand...

:sleepy:

Thank you Negative Nancy for your moldy opinion of the mid-west.

style515 said:

Since most of you are OBSESSED with inflating your populations, the illegals really help you out since the majority of the midwestern cities are in decline.

If it wasn't them, most of these midwestern towns would show absolutely ZERO growth, and probably big losses.

Thank them for allowing you to brag about your populations.

Click to expand...

Once again, a brilliant display of ignorance. Although people of Hispanic descent constitute a large proportion of people coming to the Midwest, there are other people coming here as well. As for zero growth, how do you explain the huge gains in suburban communities outside cities like Indianapolis or Columbus, whose suburbs are overwhelmingly white?

i feel that, with the signing of NAFTA, any canadian, mexican, or american should be able to live where ever they so choose within our 3 nations.[/QUOTE]

No offense, but this is completely illogical for many reasons. First of all, assuming that we wanted to give up our sovereignty to two countries that we do not exactly see eye to eye with - Canada (socialist and much more liberal than us) and Mexico (to put it nicely a "developing country" with a corrupt government) it could only work with Canada as they are comparable in stability both economically and politically. Until Mexico becomes somewhat on par with the U.S. in standard of living, you would see the largest migration ever. Furthermore, then we would have to seal off the southern border of Mexico to prevent all the rest of Latin America from entering Mexico through the Guatemala/Mexico border and then being granted access to the U.S. and Canada.

While this thread probably should be moved to the Skybar, it is important as it affects urban growth and business.

I think we need to clarify two things:

1) By the US Government's own statistics, 60% of illegal immigrants came to the US legally, but overstayed their visas. 40% are considered "border-crossers."

2) The 14th Amendment to the Constitution guarantees equal-protection rights to everyone within its borders - not just citizens. And don't let misguided websites and opinionated talk-show hosts try to convince you that the clause "within its jurisdiction" applies only to citizens. The US Supreme Court has repeatedly struck down this interpretation.

I am not defending illegal immigration. I do think people here illegally should have every expectation of being deported. I am simply pointing out the fact that the Constitution of the United States of America grants equal protection under the law to all people within its borders, whether they are here legally or not. Even the conservative judges on the Supreme Court have affirmed this.

This last point is directed mostly to DowntownVital, who stated above: "Why are we worried about protecting the rights of those who presence here is by definition against the law? " Well, it's because our Constitution guarantees it. Heck, even convicted felons still have Equal Protection rights.

There are 300 million people in this country, of whom about 11 million are here illegally. That means about 4% of the people could be deported.

Would this even affect Midwestern cities much?

^^ You make a good point regarding my comments, I overstated. I 100% agree that illegal immigrant should receive due process and be treated in accordance with our laws. I was more referring to my feeling that illegals shouldn't receive certain privleges, such as drivers licenses for instance, or in relation to current issues I have no problem with making illegal immigration a felony, as it is ILLEGAL immigration. But I want to be very careful to ammend my statement to say that these people, as humans in our country, deserve the full protections that our constitution calls for.

Avian001 said:

While this thread probably should be moved to the Skybar, it is important as it affects urban growth and business.

I think we need to clarify two things:

1) By the US Government's own statistics, 60% of illegal immigrants came to the US legally, but overstayed their visas. 40% are considered "border-crossers."

2) The 14th Amendment to the Constitution guarantees equal-protection rights to everyone within its borders - not just citizens. And don't let misguided websites and opinionated talk-show hosts try to convince you that the clause "within its jurisdiction" applies only to citizens. The US Supreme Court has repeatedly struck down this interpretation.

I am not defending illegal immigration. I do think people here illegally should have every expectation of being deported. I am simply pointing out the fact that the Constitution of the United States of America grants equal protection under the law to all people within its borders, whether they are here legally or not. Even the conservative judges on the Supreme Court have affirmed this.

This last point is directed mostly to DowntownVital, who stated above: "Why are we worried about protecting the rights of those who presence here is by definition against the law? " Well, it's because our Constitution guarantees it. Heck, even convicted felons still have Equal Protection rights.

There are 300 million people in this country, of whom about 11 million are here illegally. That means about 4% of the people could be deported.

Would this even affect Midwestern cities much?

Click to expand...

well, a objective to putting it on hear was to see how many illegal immigrants exist w/in different cities...and actually in my city of milwaukee, there has been a affect from the immigrants. labor fields, population,neigborhoods,cousines, ect.

Mike Davis wrote an interesting book on the impact of latino immigration on US cities, called "Magical Urbanism" (a pun on the partly latino literary movement of "magical realism").

The good thing is that latin america seems to be an urban culture, or has a postive attitude to urbanism and city life (unlike the USA), so, hopefully, these immigrants are most likely not negatively disposed to city living.