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Right lads and girls...I've been reading a book lately called '102 minutes' which I would highly recommend. The book tells the story of the survivors in the 102 minutes of the first plane hitting the World Trade Centre and the collapse of the second building. I won't tell you much more incase you decide to give it a go especially with the hols coming up as it would be a good reade on the beach etc. Over the last week however the book has totally engulfed and fascinated me in almost a morbid type of way I would suppose. But getting to the point it seems that the main points of the story that lead to the disaster were:

1. The design faults within the buildings
2. The lack of communication between the police and the fire brigade
3. The amount of people within the buildings at the time.

Now although the book has kept me occupied over the last week it has certainly made me think about things. Therefore I would like to know peoples opinions or knowledge on the following factors in the order of the above points.

1. The design faults of the world trade centre were suggested in the book to be the fact that the staircases in the buildings were too close together, clusted around the core of the building, therefore upon impact of the first plane all staircases were totally blocked off for anyone above the impact zone. Plus another suggestion that the steel work was not fireproofed.

So relating this info to Liverpool (although I know Liverpool doesn't have a single building the size of the wtc) I would like to know if all of Liverpool's talls meet the required standards of health and safety? Now I have only been in the Plaza and know that the staircases are located at each end of the building however if you look at resiential buildings like Beetham West there is only one stairace through the core of the building. Now if you consider if there was a fire in the panoramic tower or god forbid a terrorist attack then the people in the above apartments would be stuck as there is no other route of escape. Now im not an expert but would this be the case?

2. The lack of communication between the police and fire brigade was an issue as it seems they have always had a problem with each other in NYC. Is this the case in liverpool?

3. The amount of people in the building at time was huge. How many people work in Liverpool on a typical working day? How many work in liverpool's largest towers such as The Capital, Metropiltan, Plaza or Liver Buildings?

I would certainly recommend this book if your interested in that type of thing however i would really like to know peoples opinions on the above if it where to happen in Liverpool. Apologies if there are many spelling mistakes as it is pretty late. I look forward to any responses.
 

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Interesting topic. As is my under-standing of the collapse of the WTC, the problem was caused because the central stair core, and the exterior curtain wall could not support themselves alone. They needed each other to stay upright, and floor trusses connecting them allowed this. The blast of the impacts blew off the fire-proofing on the floor trusses, leaving them vulnerable to a raging fire caused by the jet fuel. As the trusses weakened due to the heat, they began to detach, meaning the stair core and the curtain wall became separate and unable to support each other, and coupled with the weakened curtain wall where the planes had punched through, the outcome was inevitable. Therefore, following the impacts, the design was arguably the biggest contributing factor in the collapse of the buildings, and the loss of life, over and above those lost on the planes and within the impact zones.

As such, had a different design been used, it is possible that the buildings may have remained standing, and those on the upper floors, above the impact zone, could have survived until the fire was put out. This I assume if the case for Beetham West, where there is only one stair core. With to other buildings in the city, I think they would be OK as they have more than one stair core, or other means of exit.

I don't think the amount of people in the buildings is necessarily a problem, assuming there is a properly constructed evacuation plan in place in the event of an emergency. However this needs to be fully and regularly communicated to those using the buildings so they know what to do.

All that said, if people are going to fly planes into tall structures, I think there is really only so much you can do to safeguard against the effects of that, and it may well be inevitable that some buildings could fall, if the same situation was to be repeated.
 

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I'm sure that a high profile building such as Beetham West Tower will be designed in accordance with Building Regulations so it should be a pretty safe structure.

The provision of fire escapes is determined by the number of people within the building (quite low in the case of an apartment building) and the distance of the furthest part of the building from a fire escape.

If you compare West Tower to the Unity office building, there are more lifts and fire escapes in the latter case because it is an office building with more people per floor and the large floor plates requiring more than one escape route.

A principle of building design is that one failure should not precipitate wholesale collapse of the structure. There is the famous case of Ronan Point in London, a system built high-rise block, which partially collapsed following a gas explosion caused by an elderly tenant making a cup of tea. Teh explosion was itself so weak that the lady herself survived but it was forceful enough to push out one of the building panels that supported the structure above.

That led to revisions to building design codes that made resistance to progressive collapse an important factor in the design of any building.

An important issue in the design of any structure is risk assessment. It would be impossible to design every structure to resist every possible accident that might happen to it. You have to make an informed judgement on what is likely to happen and design against that.

In the case of West Tower, I would think that the two most likely events that would need to be designed against would be a major fire in an apartment or the office space beneath and a large vehicle running into and destroying a support column. Designing against an aircraft impact would be over the top (with the exception of a light aircraft such as a Cessna).

The World Trade Center was designed against an aircraft impact due to its height and the very large number of people working inside it. There was the precedent of the bomber that crashed into the Empire State Building during the Second World War so it was known that this was a possibility.

At the time that the WTC was designed, the greatest conceivable accident was that a Boeing 707, attempting to land at a nearby airport would get lost and crash into the building. As it would be flying close to the ground, its speed would be low.

The idea that a fully loaded airplane with enough fuel for a transcontinental flight would be deliberately flown at high speed into the tower is unlikely to have been seen as a legitimate risk by its designers.

I don't think that the collapse of the WTC was a consequence of its design, although it was probably more vulnerable to progressive collapse than more conventional buildings. Both towers survived for a long enough period after being attacked for almost all the people beneath the impact zone to be evacuated and that is probably all that could be reasonably expected.
 

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if a plane as big as those that hit the WTC, full of fuel and going x hundred miles an hour hit any building in Liverpool it would completely obliterate it.

the reasons why the WTC towers collapsed are rather obvious.
 

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Liverpool Ones Underground Carpark is a very easy target in my opinion. Car packed with explosives, could bring the whole lot down, or atleast heavily damage the foudations of the buildings above.
 

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Right lads and girls...I've been reading a book lately called '102 minutes' which I would highly recommend. The book tells the story of the survivors in the 102 minutes of the first plane hitting the World Trade Centre and the collapse of the second building. I won't tell you much more incase you decide to give it a go especially with the hols coming up as it would be a good reade on the beach etc. Over the last week however the book has totally engulfed and fascinated me in almost a morbid type of way I would suppose. But getting to the point it seems that the main points of the story that lead to the disaster were:

1. The design faults within the buildings
2. The lack of communication between the police and the fire brigade
3. The amount of people within the buildings at the time.

Now although the book has kept me occupied over the last week it has certainly made me think about things. Therefore I would like to know peoples opinions or knowledge on the following factors in the order of the above points.

1. The design faults of the world trade centre were suggested in the book to be the fact that the staircases in the buildings were too close together, clusted around the core of the building, therefore upon impact of the first plane all staircases were totally blocked off for anyone above the impact zone. Plus another suggestion that the steel work was not fireproofed.

So relating this info to Liverpool (although I know Liverpool doesn't have a single building the size of the wtc) I would like to know if all of Liverpool's talls meet the required standards of health and safety? Now I have only been in the Plaza and know that the staircases are located at each end of the building however if you look at resiential buildings like Beetham West there is only one stairace through the core of the building. Now if you consider if there was a fire in the panoramic tower or god forbid a terrorist attack then the people in the above apartments would be stuck as there is no other route of escape. Now im not an expert but would this be the case?

2. The lack of communication between the police and fire brigade was an issue as it seems they have always had a problem with each other in NYC. Is this the case in liverpool?

3. The amount of people in the building at time was huge. How many people work in Liverpool on a typical working day? How many work in liverpool's largest towers such as The Capital, Metropiltan, Plaza or Liver Buildings?

I would certainly recommend this book if your interested in that type of thing however i would really like to know peoples opinions on the above if it where to happen in Liverpool. Apologies if there are many spelling mistakes as it is pretty late. I look forward to any responses.
I read that book too mate, was a very good read and raised a lot of important issues.
 
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