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...and that's what makes it diabolical. I don't feel that's a controversial statement to make if the BCR process is broken, is it?

BCR processes favour low cost immediate better items that ultimately have a very high cost and low benefit items in the long run. Therefore they often favour projects such as the Busway upgrade over far better projects.


Again, the bus restructure produced a slightly lower benefit but a significantly lower cost but was ignored. Is that not a diabolical outcome?
 

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...and that's what makes it diabolical. I don't feel that's a controversial statement to make if the BCR process is broken, is it?

BCR processes favour low cost immediate better items that ultimately have a very high cost and low benefit items in the long run. Therefore they often favour projects such as the Busway upgrade over far better projects.


Again, the bus restructure produced a slightly lower benefit but a significantly lower cost but was ignored. Is that not a diabolical outcome?
never said it was controversial.

I simply disagreed with your claim that the original BCR was diabolical, the assessed BCR stated in the reports wasn’t diabolical it was actually quite good.

You’ve since further explained that you weren’t referencing the report, rather you hold an opinion that the BCR process is broken.

dont see what the issue is
 

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My issue is using the BCR to imply it was a viable or good project.
 

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Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane Metro budget blowout costs ratepayers $64 million

Delays to Brisbane Metro have cost ratepayers $64 million, as the council blames the state government's slow processes for stalling a project that has already blown its budget by $300 million.

The project hit a wall in June last year, when lord mayor Adrian Schrinner came out swinging against the state government, blaming it for additional costs and delays.

But it was all smiles by June this year, when a peace deal was reached that removed the sticky topic of the $1.2 billion transport project's centrepiece station — a proposal to put all buses and metro vehicles underground at the Cultural Centre in South Brisbane.

With the council and state agreeing to postpone the planned underground station in favour of smaller changes to the existing above-ground station at the south end of the Victoria Bridge, progress was suddenly back on the table.

But on Tuesday, the council's public and active transport committee heard the year-long delay had cost the council $64 million, and will likely cost more.

"We've been project-ready for about a year, so we've had about a year's delay," Brisbane Metro project director Stephen Hammer told councillors.

"That's extra people, extra time, design effort, tender costs, all those types of things.

"... That has required, in particular, quite a financial burden on construction companies for the cost of disposing of waste."

The council and state have now signed several agreements to begin work, requiring a "collaborative process" to design the Cultural Centre station, and the council to install shade structures on Victoria Bridge. A park at 125 Grey Street, next to the train station, will also be installed under the agreement.

South Brisbane residents will also have free tolls on the Go Between Bridge during construction.

The council will also be required to develop more strategies to manage fare evasion. The metro vehicles are expected to have all-door boarding with tap-on card readers, which Mr Hammer said "potentially" created an increased risk of fare evasion.

"We are also required to reimburse the cost of [Transport and Main Roads'] interactions with Brisbane City Council as part of delivering the project," he said.

"So a cost reimbursement will be put in place for that, and an agreed process for network planning and service changes, which is quite a significant part of the project."

Public transport committee chairman Ryan Murphy told Brisbane Times the "onerous" state-imposed condition required the council to reimburse the wages of TMR employees working with the Metro project.

A full figure for those employee costs is not yet available, but the new requirements from TMR will need to go before the council again in the future for approval.

Cr Murphy also questioned the timing of the state government's sign-off on the Metro approvals, days before election caretaker mode began.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey said the Metro project covered a "significant portion of inner Brisbane, so getting the design of public spaces around it right is critical too".

"Many of the changes requested by the state were to reinstate elements at King George Square, Buranda and Griffith University stations," he said.

"These elements were cut out of the Metro plans by Brisbane City Council in 2020 when they proposed to delay undergrounding of the Cultural Centre station.

"These elements needed to be reinstated to stop the busway clogging up when the longer metro vehicles go into service."

Mr Bailey said the council was "warned" not to go to tender in 2019 without the state's approvals, but those issues had been resolved.

In the committee, opposition leader Jared Cassidy asked how much of the final transport network would be underground as originally proposed.

Mr Hammer said the Adelaide Street tunnel would bring about 300 metres of underground travel to Metro, while about 200 metres of planned underground tunnel at the Cultural Centre would not go ahead.

Cr Murphy suggested the Brisbane Metro project was never specifically about putting buses underground, but rather about "addressing a strategic transport infrastructure concern".
" ... Public transport committee chairman Ryan Murphy told Brisbane Times the "onerous" state-imposed condition required the council to reimburse the wages of TMR employees working with the Metro project. ... " >:D

Couriermail --> Brisbane Metro cost could blow out by $100m

Ratepayers could be slugged for millions in order to deliver the Brisbane Metro, with costs expected to balloon further after the State Government laid down new conditions for the project days before entering caretaker mode.

The Courier-Mail can reveal the State Government has given its approval to the Metro project provided “key conditions” were met – including certain platforms being redesigned and the wages of government staff working on the project reimbursed.

Sources told The Courier-Mail the bill for those expansions would fall on council and could amount to upwards of $100 million, with the exact figure yet to be determined.

The new conditions include expanded platforms at the Buranda station, the addition of a bus layover at Griffith University station as well as improved customer information facilities at King George Square and the Cultural Centre stations.

Other conditions included Go Between Bridge toll relief for South Brisbane residents after the Victoria Bridge is closed to vehicles next year and the creation of a new community park in South Brisbane.

“A further condition imposed by the State Government was that Council reimburse the wages of Transport and Mains Roads employees working with Metro,” Brisbane City Council Public and Active Transport Chair Ryan Murphy said.

It follows some 17 months of delays due to the State Government’s demands for the redesign of the Cultural Centre station in June last year.

Council data obtained by The Courier-Mail shows the cost of those delays to be an estimated $64 million.

“This estimate factors in the State ordered redesign of the Cultural Centre Station, as well as changes to EBA labour rates and State waste levy impacts,” Mr Murphy said.

“After 500 meetings, Labor finally signed off on Brisbane’s Metro approval, just days out from entering caretaker mode ahead of their election campaign.”

Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey said the conditions were crucial to making the project “right” and involved reinstating elements that had been altered by Council.

“Without the changes the Metro would have actually slowed down buses on the busway,” he said.

“These elements were cut out of the Metro plans by Brisbane City Council in 2020 when they proposed to delay undergrounding of the Cultural Centre Station.”

Mr Murphy said council would continue negotiations “to ensure the best outcome for ratepayers”.

“We can never get back the year of delay, the 500 meetings or the $64 million, but thankfully we can now get on this critical, much-needed project,” he said.

The Metro project – which ballooned by $300 million to an expected cost of $1.24 billion in the year’s Council budget – is slated to improve public transport outcomes for the city and create more than 2500 jobs.
 

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The article seems to suggest they are no longer going to provide platform ticketing validation. It will be all done onboard like buses and the trams in Vic and SA.
 

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The state govt want the council to fund toll relief on the Go Between bridge? I’m sorry but taxpayers shouldn’t be subsidising driving like this, there’s no essentials services outside of South Brisbane that warrant a subsidy of the toll.
 

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^^ While I agree that people in South Brisbane/West End, in general, shouldn't need to drive anywhere, that's not the same as saying people in West End will not drive anywhere. They will drive, and with the Victoria Bridge closed, those who used it will all congregate on the remaining free access bridge to get across the river - the William Jolly Bridge. I'm guessing the Government's concern is of gridlock on the William Jolly Bridge and Grey Street by extension, and that waving fares on the Go Between bridge for local residents is insurance against that.

Whether this is actually a valid concern and whether waving the fares is at all necessary, is a different question.
 

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So is it free tolls on GBB just during construction? If so, that makes no sense, it isn't like the bridge is going to open to traffic again after construction is it?
 

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The Metro's only hope of being worthwhile is if the LNP wins on Saturday, then probably the state and council can work together a lot better on it. The underground station at Southbank is the centrepiece of the project, it's almost useless without it.

I've never really seen the point of the Go Between bridge (dumb name too). Maybe in the future it will get used (20 or 30 years). It was always too close to the free William Jolly bridge to attract many drivers willing to pay a toll to use it. All that money spent when a site like Toowong to West End would have worked better.
 

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Never heard of the Go-Betweens and I've been around a long time. They should have stuck with Hale St Bridge and I agree (have alway) that it should have been further up.
 

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Never heard of the Go-Betweens and I've been around a long time. They should have stuck with Hale St Bridge and I agree (have alway) that it should have been further up.
Where would you have put it? The longterm impact of this bridge was the traffic from the north, coming down Hale St. If you put it further up, are you saying Cribb St, or Park Rd, or were you going to dogleg it along Coro drive or .. what?

If you wanted this to be closer to Milton, Then follow the flows back from North Brisbane and explain how you get a significant traffic outcome from moving there.

(I don't think Hale St is ideal btw, but I'm heavily biassed since I live along Montague Rd)
 

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Where would you have put it? The longterm impact of this bridge was the traffic from the north, coming down Hale St. If you put it further up, are you saying Cribb St, or Park Rd, or were you going to dogleg it along Coro drive or .. what?

If you wanted this to be closer to Milton, Then follow the flows back from North Brisbane and explain how you get a significant traffic outcome from moving there.

(I don't think Hale St is ideal btw, but I'm heavily biassed since I live along Montague Rd)
It actually makes sense to have a bridge feeding Hale St.
 

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Never heard of the Go-Betweens and I've been around a long time. They should have stuck with Hale St Bridge and I agree (have alway) that it should have been further up.
Dunno....I think I always had the feeling that it would redirect a lot of the traffic off Coro Drive through West End if it could have gone somewhere further up the river. I, like Aussie, always felt it was too close to William Jolly. I wasn't too worried about from the north. I never got the brain too active on that but. Just a feeling I had. ;)

Where was Campbell's tunnel/s supposed to have gone? One was gonna start at Stone's Corner wasn't it?
 

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^^ While the band formed in the late 1970s, it was throughout the 1980s that they made a name for themselves. "Streets of your Town", and the album it came off "16 Lovers Lane" came out in 1988.
 
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