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Yes, that seems to be the case. It didn't appear like that in Sydney's Rail Future as we were discussing but it seems that is what will happen. Its needed to facilitate the growth on the stations from Strathfield back to Parramatta anyway, post WestConnex its forecast that these stations would see lots of development. I think they are ripe for it too.

This relates to your comment and the comment of Eco-Rat, I have to say I thought that the better mid to long term option is not what they have chosen for the Western corridor. The $1B Western Sydney Rail Upgrade Program makes sense on a few levels but I cant help but feel if they had of gone with an option such as leaked report that recommended the Parramatta to Croydon express tunnel the cost would not be that much more and the result much better.

Although even to Croydon does seem half done. Extend it to Sydney Terminal. Such a line could be built with no stations to keep the cost well down. Western line trains run through the existing Harris Park station station dive into a tunnel before Granville (somewhere around Wigram st perhaps) then runs directly to the CBD to surface somewhere near Regent St Morturry and into Sydney Terminal. This new tunnel can then take all 20 x 10-12 car TPH from the Main Western line to transfer to metro into the CBD and the North Shore.

Surely around $2B would not be out of the question for this tunnel? It would have good political capital too, an all new piece of infrastructure and assuming 160 KM/h capable trains an 11 min CBD journey would make it a much easier sell with the forced transfer to Metro.

You can then leave the existing main lines as they are with 10 TPH 8 car trains on the Western locals from St Marys or Blacktown all stations to Strathfield joining the 10 TPH from the Northern line up to the North Shore. You could in addition run 6 TPH 10 - 12 Car Lidcombe > Olympic Park > Sydney Terminal trains too via the Mains (joining the Central Coast and Newcastle line trains). Then you have the 12 TPH Main South trains run express from Merrylands to Homebush on the locals to join the 8 TPH inner west line and then all stations to the City Circle. Cumberland line trains are bumped up to 6 TPH.

If you really wanted to make the Liverpool/ Main South journey quicker another variation on the above with the new Western tunnel would be to build to build a flyover at Granville Junction to allow Liverpool trains to join the Mains and run express to Strathfield and join the Northern line trains on the Suburbans to the North Shore. Again probably 10 TPH each for the Main South and Main Northern lines. You could still also tun the Olympic Park express trains mentioned above. Then run 12 TPH Blacktown starters on the locals all stops to Homebush to meet the 8 TPH Inner west line to the City Circle.

When you have soaked up the capacity on the Metro for large scale transfers (remembering the Main Western line is Sydney's busiest) you then consider something like the CBD Relief line to Wynyard etc but I honestly think that first up the fast tunnel is the most cost effective. least intrusive and easy to implement option plus it is its own sector so can be privately run.
Ok, firstly its good to see a bit of convergence on thinking about this issue. The tunnel should come in at under $2B if the NWRL is anything to go by. And it would save money to have minimal stations. I've chosen Olympic Park and Five Dock. Your mileage may vary.

Secondly, I still think it makes life more difficult west of Parramatta to integrate such a tunnel with the existing tracks there. I know we've argued this before. I'm hoping we'll continue to converge.

Thirdly, if you can get the "south" part of the inner west and south line completely off the map then that simplifies life a whole lot. Its not that complex, you just create a Y junction so that you can run Liverpool trains to Central via East Hills. Now you don't have to worry about complex stopping patterns and the entire inner west line can run as a sweeper service at high frequency.

Fourth, if you can run 12 car trains from the west, forget about Penrith and the Blue Mountains for a moment. Just upgrade the platforms at St Marys, Blacktown, Parramatta (maybe Strathfield) and then Central. Then you get a big capacity upgrade on the express tracks for very little.

Fifth (I know this will run counter intuitive to some) the inner west line simply runs to Liverpool. No Granville to Parramatta service. No more flat junction conflict and you can run Cumberland trains at higher frequency. With a high enough frequency, Granville to Parramatta via Merrylands adds a few minutes.

In short, you have two track pairs from Parramatta to Homebush. The express track pair carries your 12 car trains, some T1 trains (which don't go west of Blacktown) and of course the Blue Mountains trains. With 10x12 car trains in the mix, that track pair now carries the equivalent of 25x8 car trains. The local track pair exclusively carries the inner west sweeper service to Liverpool.

Now, if you were clever, you could interleave the inner west trains with the Cumberland line trains one to one and the Cumberland line trains could run limited stops from Liverpool to Parramatta.
 

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Its finally happened!

From the SMH
Opal takeover: Pensioner Excursion and TravelTen tickets cut from next year
No paper public transport tickets beyond single and return tickets will be sold from next year, Transport Minister Andrew Constance said on Tuesday morning.

The decision to stop selling most types of paper tickets means up to half a million pensioners and seniors will have the next five months to sign up for a Gold Opal pass, or otherwise be left paying full fare.

On the way out: TravelTen tickets won't be sold from next year.

In his announcement on Tuesday, Mr Constance also foreshadowed the eventual closure of all types of paper tickets, and said the government was looking at whether to upgrade the Opal system to allow payment by "contactless" credit card or smartphone.



Among the 57 types of tickets that will not be sold from January 1, 2016, are the commonly used TravelTen for buses, Pensioner Excursion Ticket, and Family Funday Sunday tickets.

"There is no point continuing to run two ticket systems," said Mr Constance, who lauded the widespread take-up of the Opal card as one of the signature successes of the Coalition government.

Full article here :http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/opal-takeover-pensioner-excursion-and-travelten-tickets-cut-from-next-year-20150804-giqwwf.html
 

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Why Try Harder
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From the article, I particularly like this idea.
Transport authorities in London, whose Oyster card provided the model for the Opal, have introduced upgrades allowing public transport users to pay for journeys directly through contactless credit cards. London authorities have said it could take about two years to introduce similar upgrades in Sydney, and Mr Constance said he was interested.
"The future in this regard is incredibly exciting," he said. "We could see the advent of account-based ticketing very, very soon, it's rolling out elsewhere around the world, where people can tap on with their smart phones, tap on with their credit cards and tap off with those products as well.
"I've asked Transport to look very closely at that. I think the future lies in the of use of technology to improve the customer experience."
 

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Non stop rail Central/Parramatta

Eco_rat posted in another thread
“PARRAMATTA IS NO LONGER A SUBURB. IT IS GREATER SYDNEY'S SECOND DESIGNATED CBD.”


I disagree because I believe in 50 years Parramatta will be the main CBD of greater Sydney however I do believe we will need a dedicated track for a fast train CBD/Parramatta now that could be a non stop Metro with extra seats 15minutes, a 160kph in a 7m tunnel 11 minutes or a 250kph one like the 20km subway here http://www.jernbaneverket.no/en/startpage1/Projects/New-double-track-Oslo-Ski/ that would get you there in five minutes it all depends how quick you want to go and how much money you have.

As the Parramatta interchange will be outgrown in ten years and as Parramatta will be the main CBD for Wollongong, Lithgow, Gosford I suggest there needs to be a subway terminal that can take many lines including the north and south fast rail where people can just walk off the platform to change between trains or catch the carpark lift to the surface.

PS
Found another thread on the 250kph train http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/follo-line/
I work it out that at US $1.9b and 150,000 passengers per day they would have to charge US $13 each and I am not sure if Aussies would be prepared to pay that much for a five minute trip.
 

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Eco_rat posted in another thread
“PARRAMATTA IS NO LONGER A SUBURB. IT IS GREATER SYDNEY'S SECOND DESIGNATED CBD.”


I disagree because I believe in 50 years Parramatta will be the main CBD of greater Sydney however I do believe we will need a dedicated track for a fast train CBD/Parramatta now that could be a non stop Metro with extra seats 15minutes, a 160kph in a 7m tunnel 11 minutes or a 250kph one like the 20km subway here http://www.jernbaneverket.no/en/startpage1/Projects/New-double-track-Oslo-Ski/ that would get you there in five minutes it all depends how quick you want to go and how much money you have.

As the Parramatta interchange will be outgrown in ten years and as Parramatta will be the main CBD for Wollongong, Lithgow, Gosford I suggest there needs to be a subway terminal that can take many lines including the north and south fast rail where people can just walk off the platform to change between trains or catch the carpark lift to the surface.

PS
Found another thread on the 250kph train http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/follo-line/
I work it out that at US $1.9b and 150,000 passengers per day they would have to charge US $13 each and I am not sure if Aussies would be prepared to pay that much for a five minute trip.
They should be paying at least that much.

What would the alternative cost?

-Westconnex toll?
-parking at both ends?
-taxi/uber?

Seriously -you wouldn't pay $13?

Railways aren't welfare.
 

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Sydney Public Transport

I'm hopeful that they will still accept traveltens for those who still have them once they stop selling them. I have a few that will need to be used up.

I'm sure they will for a while - but the point of transitioning away from paper tickets is to get rid of the machines associated with them, and the maintenance costs that go with it. Otherwise they would simply keep all ticket options going. It won't be forever but it would be uncharacteristic of this government to do get rid of them quickly.

I always assumed that the disposable paper tickets that would be sold after the roll out of opal would be contactless paper tickets (the only examples I can recall using was in Valencia and Chicago). A model similar to that of Beijing and Shanghai where you get a plastic card that is coded for your journey and then the ticket is captured at the end of your journey would require gates everywhere so is definitely not going to happen.
 

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I'm sure they will for a while - but the point of transitioning away from paper tickets is to get rid of the machines associated with them, and the maintenance costs that go with it. Otherwise they would simply keep all ticket options going. It won't be forever but it would be uncharacteristic of this government to do get rid of them quickly.

I always assumed that the disposable paper tickets that would be sold after the roll out of opal would be contactless paper tickets (the only examples I can recall using was in Valencia and Chicago). A model similar to that of Beijing and Shanghai where you get a plastic card that is coded for your journey and then the ticket is captured at the end of your journey would require gates everywhere so is definitely not going to happen.
So basically the machines where you buy paper tickets now will stay?
I believe Cubic has the contract to maintain (ie operate ) those machines well into future.
What is being proposed really relates to ticket sellers, on sellers (like newsagents etc) these options will disappear in the future.
Or are people saying that there will be a new paper/plastic one off Opal ticket replacing the current paper tickets on trains and buses?
It is just such a pity that the rollout of Opal cash top up machines is so slow, seriously by now there should be thousands of top up cash machines , not tens as is the current reality.
 

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Or are people saying that there will be a new paper/plastic one off Opal ticket replacing the current paper tickets on trains and buses?
It is just such a pity that the rollout of Opal cash top up machines is so slow, seriously by now there should be thousands of top up cash machines , not tens as is the current reality.
No, they are not saying that there will be paper/ plastic one off Opal tickets. What is provided for the occasional traveller is far from certain. They could go down the Melbourne path and provide nothing, or the London path and allow the use of pay wave cards.

Seriously, why should there be thousands of top up cash machines? For eTag there are NONE. Travel by car is the much preferred method in this city for getting to work and motorists can cope without any top up machines.
 

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No, they are not saying that there will be paper/ plastic one off Opal tickets. What is provided for the occasional traveller is far from certain. They could go down the Melbourne path and provide nothing, or the London path and allow the use of pay wave cards.
Actually they are going to provide single use tickets, we just don't know how they'll be used yet.
When they announced the top up machines, one of them was to also dispense disposable cards. That machine is supposed to be rolled out to the busiest stations after the cash accepting machines are introduced.
 

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Zoomwhoosh
The reason I started this thread instead of continuing the other one is I feel it is vitally important not to have intermediate stops particularly if the train is doing 250kph which I originally wanted but I was not too stressed about what type of train even if it was on the surface.
Actually if the $1b allocated for the heavy rail could be put towards a non stop 250kph subway it would make it very possible and allow more heavy rail traffic on the existing lines.

mw123
Only as far as people go to our eastern Sydney CBD now from these areas.

Eco-rat
I agree with you we need a fast train in the mix and if we did go for the 250kph it would have almost infinite capacity and $13 is pretty reasonable looking at it the way you do.
 

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I wouldn't be surprised if the government decides to get ticket vendors to start selling opal cards, now that most people are using automatic top up and having retrenched a significant portion of ticket sellers.
 

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Seriously, why should there be thousands of top up cash machines? For eTag there are NONE. Travel by car is the much preferred method in this city for getting to work and motorists can cope without any top up machines.
The difference with cars is that they are all registered anyway

Not having cash top ups (either at resellers or machines) means you can only use the PT system if you are registered/have a registered Opal. This creates privacy/big brother issues, but also closes the system to visitors either international or interstate - it all becomes too hard

The government was (rightly, in my view) criticised for not putting in cash/casual Opal top-up machines when they rolled out the card in the first place, you could only do cash top ups at resellers, which is inconvenient as they're mostly outside stations. They are just redressing that
 

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This creates privacy/big brother issues, but also closes the system to visitors either international or interstate - it all becomes too hard
There is no such thing as anonymous travel. User Mathew has often quoted, how so called anonymous travelers committing fraud have been detected.
I didn't say it was a good idea not to have an option for visitors. I travel extensively and am well versed in the various options for visitors. Melbourne and Paris would be down near the bottom and Singapore near the top of the list of ease for visitors.
 
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