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Is it just me or some think that 'ordinary' people can only possibly live in low density suburbs? Last time I checked the Hills was quite affluent and people living in the Green Square high rises far from a privileged background.

The NW metro has very low patronage because it runs through a very low density area. I am sort of ok with it because it is part of a much larger project and comes with the promise of development around metro stations.

In any case, planning in Sydney is far superior to any other Australian city in terms of allowing and fostering development near transport hubs. That shows in a higher modal PT share, especially off-peak, and some chance of life without a car.
 

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Also I wanna point out - 200 new car spaces doesn't mean 200 new passengers. It'll be a mix of new, plus people who used walk/bike/bus but have switched to driving. Further highlighting how poor bang-for-buck this all is.
There would be a large percentage of drop offs and pick ups by cars at train stations. These wouldn't be using up car spaces. So not all people who drive to the station are necessarily taking up a car space.
 

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^^ Sadly once they're built they're politically a challenge to remove. It's easy to run stories in the local rag about parking, which is why Scomo thought fit to make commuter parking an election promise. :(
well, if Bondi Junction is any guide, you just give them to the local council to operate and then miraculously, they incrementally turn them into other things.
 

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I don't really get the Blue Mountains example. Virtually all populated areas of the Blue Mountains are within a short distance of a station on the Blue Mountains line, which has regular service into the city. It's a winding alignment but that's because of the topography of the area (the roads are similarly circuitous, so don't offer much of an advantage). The Blue Mountains line has 10m boardings a year, which considering its population catchment is quite impressive. It's probably one of the least car dependent places outside of Sydney. You could make some improvements, e.g. half-hourly off-peak frequency, speeding up the Central-Penrith section a bit, and introducing strategic limited stop bus links like Springwood-Richmond. But it already has a good basis to start with.
 

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Perpetual Bohemian
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There's more to the mountains than the area defined by the GW highway. Try the foothills to the north in the area known as Hawkesbury.
 

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WARREN
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A bus every 10-15 mins (especially in peak) would be more attractive, but sadly most outer suburban bus commutes are not like this which leads to people driving to the train station (myself included when I used to do this - though not anymore).

Example of timetable below. If the train is late then you could be waiting a while for the next bus and this isn't attractive.
Why is it that with many suburban bus services, seeing as for some services the entire point of the route is to pick up people who have alighted from the train, that there is so little coordination between modes?

If there's a 6 minute connection between the train arriving and the bus departing, and the train is arriving 6 minutes late, in 9/10 cases the bus will just drove off at it's scheduled time anyway, and do it's circuit of suburban back streets with nobody on it, because all the bus driver knows about is their timetable, and knows to drive off at the scheduled time no matter what.
 

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WARREN
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There's more to the mountains than the area defined by the GW highway. Try the foothills to the north in the area known as Hawkesbury.
Not a heavily populated area though, but there's a few people at Kurrajong. I drove through there last month on my way to the Lithgow Valley Plaza, quite pretty in those parts.

I presume anybody driving to the NW Metro from that area must be travelling to the North Ryde or Chatswood areas and had previously probably been driving, as one would assume that even as slow as it is, the Richmond line would be a better option for those going to the CBD.
 

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Perpetual Bohemian
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Not a heavily populated area though, but there's a few people at Kurrajong. I drove through there last month on my way to the Lithgow Valley Plaza, quite pretty in those parts.

I presume anybody driving to the NW Metro from that area must be travelling to the North Ryde or Chatswood areas and had previously probably been driving, as one would assume that even as slow as it is, the Richmond line would be a better option for those going to the CBD.
There is quite a large population living west of the river, well over 10,000. Given that the metro has taken patronage from the Richmond line, quite a lot of people out there obviously want the north western route. When the metro goes through to the city, it will provide the fastest journey for those in the Riverstone-Schofields area and surrounds, so demand in that direction from westwards will only grow.
 

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Why is it that with many suburban bus services, seeing as for some services the entire point of the route is to pick up people who have alighted from the train, that there is so little coordination between modes?

If there's a 6 minute connection between the train arriving and the bus departing, and the train is arriving 6 minutes late, in 9/10 cases the bus will just drove off at it's scheduled time anyway, and do it's circuit of suburban back streets with nobody on it, because all the bus driver knows about is their timetable, and knows to drive off at the scheduled time no matter what.
because you cant have a 5m late train throw the buses out.
 

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WARREN
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because you cant have a 5m late train throw the buses out.
Yeah because the driver needs time for two smokes and a can of Mother when he gets to the end of the route after his circuit of the back streets, not just only time for one smoke and a can of Red Bull as if the bus ran five minutes late.
 

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There is quite a large population living west of the river, well over 10,000. Given that the metro has taken patronage from the Richmond line, quite a lot of people out there obviously want the north western route. When the metro goes through to the city, it will provide the fastest journey for those in the Riverstone-Schofields area and surrounds, so demand in that direction from westwards will only grow.
As you are no doubt aware, there have been long term proposals to extend the Richmond line across the Hawkesbury River to North Richmond and even as far as Kurrajong, which would effectively be reinstating the original line which ran to Kurrajong, but not necessarily on the same alignment, because of housing development which has taken place since the line was closed.

North Richmond has developed quite significantly in recent years and with the single river crossing to Richmond, a station there would reduce congestion on the Bells Line of Road for potential rail commuters. There are also other outlying settlements like Glossodia, Grose Wold, Grose Vale and Kurmond, which could potentially be developed further for low density housing in an attractive semi-rural environment, to feed into a station at North Richmond, if not Kurrajong as well.

Metro Northwest will eventually be extended to Schofields and whether or not the Richmond Line were to be extended in the future, there will be no need for commuters to drive to Tallawong if they want to use the metro line. Just BTW, another example of a failure in transport planning in not extending the North West Rail Link to the Richmond Line in the first place, whether as originally proposed as an extension of the existing network or as a metro.

Depending on their destination, such as Macquarie Park, Chatswood or North Sydney, commuters from Richmond or any future extension across the river will have the choice of interchanging to the metro at Schofields or continuing with a single seat journey to the CBD, bearing in mind that there will be a significant improvement in express journey times with the proposed signalling upgrades to the existing network. There will be a considerable number of commuters who will remain on the train because they are travelling to major employment centres like Westmead, Parramatta and Burwood on the Western Line. Not everyone is going to the CBD.
 

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Perpetual Bohemian
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Certainly, an interchange at Schofields will open up the options for people living from west of Schofields to the lower Blue Mountains. That a lot of people drive to Tallawong from further west is certainly an indictment of a stupid planning decision made in the 2000s when the Labor government obtained the planning approval for the NW line. The subsequent Liberal government wanted to get started on the project quickly and didn't want to delay it with further planning process. In the meantime though, the parking is needed at Tallawong. When the Schofields connection is finally made, provided that improved bus services are available to service the Windsor Rd corridor, the pressure should come off that park and ride somewhat.
 

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Coming back to something relevant, also discussed here:

 

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WARREN
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Word on the street is C sets will stop running from Friday.

Good.
If getting a sore arse really is your thing, then you can waste $97 on a "farewell" (good riddance?) tour for them on March 6th: Chopper To The Summit Tour

And with their excessive pandemic restrictions, what sounds like a better way to spend a day than sitting on a rock hard C set seat, wearing an industrial grade mask, without even a stop for lunch?
SETS website said:
Due to the on-going COVID19 pandemic risk, and to ensure everyone's safety, all passengers will need to wear N95/P2 non-vented facemasks while on the train, except when actually eating or drinking. Passengers will also be spread out and socially distanced within the train.
I'll pass on booking a ticket.
 

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As you are no doubt aware, there have been long term proposals to extend the Richmond line across the Hawkesbury River to North Richmond and even as far as Kurrajong, which would effectively be reinstating the original line which ran to Kurrajong, but not necessarily on the same alignment, because of housing development which has taken place since the line was closed.
Is that even possible? On the map it looks like there is a park and a big block of housing between Richmond station and North Richmond, which means either a lot of property resumptions or tunnelling, neither of which seem worth it for this corridor. I imagine they will have to live with bus feeders for ever. Even the original Kurrajong line was essentially a bus feeder on rails (it was built to light rail standards and didn't run through to the Richmond line).
 

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Is that even possible? On the map it looks like there is a park and a big block of housing between Richmond station and North Richmond, which means either a lot of property resumptions or tunnelling, neither of which seem worth it for this corridor. I imagine they will have to live with bus feeders for ever. Even the original Kurrajong line was essentially a bus feeder on rails (it was built to light rail standards and didn't run through to the Richmond line).
I think the original line ran around the edge of the park (and that housing wasnt there). That wont be happening again. I would ageee with you, I dont think we will see this extension built for many, many decades if ever.
 

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Coming back to something relevant, also discussed here:

"Morning peak services will increase by 80 per cent at the Domestic, International, Mascot and Green Square stations on the T8 line"

The only way they can achieve that is by getting rid of T8 via Sydenham?
 

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"Morning peak services will increase by 80 per cent at the Domestic, International, Mascot and Green Square stations on the T8 line, while an extra 4800 customer spaces will be created on the Inner West Line, with a train expected every three minutes. "

Pretty much confirms the T2 line will likely be all stops, at least between Strathfield and Redfern (or if they do skip stops there will be no time saving really).
 

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"Morning peak services will increase by 80 per cent at the Domestic, International, Mascot and Green Square stations on the T8 line"

The only way they can achieve that is by getting rid of T8 via Sydenham?
Which will help with sectorisation since T8 won't have to share the Illawarra Locals with the South Coast Line.
 
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