[woodies]

The "+ 4 services at Sutherland * " has an asterix denoting one extra South Coast service being included in that number.
So that's two extra from Cronulla, one from Waterfall and the one South Coast.
And two extra from Hurstville (thus adding up to +6 * )

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't notice the small print. I interpret that to mean that Waterfall will now have 4tph in the peak, all going to Bondi Junction, including the South Coast Thirroul service, and a new South Coast express service to ST will be added to bring it up to 4tph. Have I got that right?

I was confused by the diagram showing 6,000 more 'customers', i.e. 5 additional trains, on T4 to Bondi Junction, bringing it up to 19tph, when in fact it's really 4 additional trains (ex Cronulla and Hurstville) with the SCO Thirroul service being retained. The other 3 SCO trains will be diverted to ST plus the 1 additional SCO express service.

I wonder if the SCO Thirroul service to Bondi Junction will be retained when the NIF is rolled out on the South Coast. They could use 6 or 8 car NIF sets or convert it to a suburban service with 8 car Waratahs or Tangaras. The latter would only be suitable for those with healthy bladders.

 

[woodies]

I will be very interested to see how fast they run the T4 Intercity with all that space. It also leaves them room for extra South Coast services in the future. My take is that they would try and maintain this sectorisation and only run the T8 via Sydenham suburban services when they have maxed out the via Airport line. However, it could simply be a hiatus until the full signaling upgrade is completed. Or maybe that just provides more TPH for the Airport line. Time will tell.

I don't think there will be much change in speed until the signalling upgrade is completed, allowing faster speeds and closer headways.

Even if more T8 services via Sydenham are reinstated on the Local, it still leaves plenty of scope to increase SCO and even introduce direct SHL Intercity services between Wolli Creek Junction and the Illawarra Dive at Erskineville with the signalling upgrade. The limiting factor for T8 via Sydenham will be the available paths on the City Circle, depending on the ultimate capacity of the Airport Line, if in fact further upgrades are possible. At best, the Local could support 10tph T8 via Sydenham to merge on the City Circle, leaving a minimum of 14tph being available for SCO and SHL Intercity services to ST. All could run in a single express pattern, stopping only at Sydenham to interchange to the metro line.

 

[woodies]

When the NIFs are on the south coast I hope they will made Waterfall a stop and interchange station, like Berowra.

The platforms at Waterfall are being extended to accommodate the 10-car NIFs, so they will obviously stop there.

 

[woodies]

I would expect that the upcoming changes to the Hurstville starters (moving to the Eastern Track pair) would see an improved stopping pattern from Sydenham to Hurstville (increased all stations for every service, I'm thinking). On the Western track pair, Intercity will only stop at Hurstville and then Sydenham. Cronulla and Waterfall starters stop at Hurstville and Kogarah, Wolli Creek then Sydenham.

I tend to agree with what you're saying in principle, but in the absence any T8 services on the Local, at least for the time being, and the transfer of SCO Intercity to the Local, I think the T4 Hurstville starters will become an all-stations service to Bondi Junction, including Tempe, St Peters and Erskineville. It never made much sense for outer suburban T8 services to stop at minor inner city stations anyway, but I can understand why it happens because of the current need to accommodate SCO Intercity and T4 semi-express services on the Main without stopping all stations.

I also think that the Cronulla/Waterfall semi-express services, crossing from the Local to the Main and merging with the Hurstville services at Wolli Creek, will stop all stations to Bondi Junction in a single pattern. Skipping a few stations to save a few minutes is neither here nor there, when a single all stops pattern is more beneficial in maximising the lines frequency.

Peak services for T4 Hurstville are to be increased from 6 to 8tph and will no doubt be increased further with the signalling upgrade. I can see no reason why a minimum 10 minute all stations off-peak frequency (6tph) from Hurstville to Bondi Junction wouldn't be possible, supplemented by Cronulla/Waterfall services from Wolli Creek to Bondi Junction.

 

[df1]

I really think it's inevitable that the stoppers to Hurstville will go up to at least 4tph off-peak. The 30min frequencies at Arncliffe, Banksia are an embarrassment, and as has been outlined, go against the minimum 15min frequencies from first service to last that are otherwise the rule within the core urban area. Erko and St. Peters will be added to T4 and this can justify the frequency increase. 4tph all to Hurstville and 4tph ltd to Cronulla on the eastern track paid, 2tph ltd to Waterfall and 2tph Central-South Coast on the western track pair sounds like the likely off-peak service pattern for the T4 corridor, and it also leaves slot for T8s and/or Southern Highlands trains to run express from Wolli Creek to Central.

But all this talk shows the limitations of the way the network is presently conceived. Really we should be talking about a minimum of 5-minute headways off-peak for all stations in the core urban area (which I would define as bounded by Sutherland, Glenfield, Blacktown and Hornsby), not 15 minutes.

With a little bit of tinkering, the current infrastructure can handle that level of service (and we have the patronage to justify it), but that gets torpedoed by bad practices that seem to be baked into the system, like running express trains on the local inner west tracks (when there are two pairs of express tracks they could run on), changing service-patterns between peak and off-peak (or late-night), or pointlessly skipping lower patronage stations when the time penalty from stopping at them is tiny (and the network effect from giving them better frequencies is considerable).

 

[Khaul]

It looks like people now can attend a religious service, a concert or a 3h play at 75% capacity without masks but they are still mandatory in public transport...

 

[N9]

Harder to do contact tracing on public transport than those other scenarios.

 

[L2]

Harder to do contact tracing on public transport than those other scenarios.

Make it compulsory to register your Opal card. Problem solved.

 

[Khaul]

^^exactly!

 

[RoarRa]

can anyone dedicated like @mudb tell me from the opal site or so.

why and how many 400/420 buses go missing or out of tinetable.

i remember missing over five in a row.

its the always missing airport bus.

 

[Home Grown]

I think you mean @mubd.

 

[ajw373]

Make it compulsory to register your Opal card. Problem solved.

Not really. Doesn’t say where you were and with whom.

 

[OZ Rails]

I tend to agree with what you're saying in principle, but in the absence any T8 services on the Local, at least for the time being, and the transfer of SCO Intercity to the Local, I think the T4 Hurstville starters will become an all-stations service to Bondi Junction, including Tempe, St Peters and Erskineville. It never made much sense for outer suburban T8 services to stop at minor inner city stations anyway, but I can understand why it happens because of the current need to accommodate SCO Intercity and T4 semi-express services on the Main without stopping all stations.

I also think that the Cronulla/Waterfall semi-express services, crossing from the Local to the Main and merging with the Hurstville services at Wolli Creek, will stop all stations to Bondi Junction in a single pattern. Skipping a few stations to save a few minutes is neither here nor there, when a single all stops pattern is more beneficial in maximising the lines frequency.

Peak services for T4 Hurstville are to be increased from 6 to 8tph and will no doubt be increased further with the signalling upgrade. I can see no reason why a minimum 10 minute all stations off-peak frequency (6tph) from Hurstville to Bondi Junction wouldn't be possible, supplemented by Cronulla/Waterfall services from Wolli Creek to Bondi Junction.

I can understand your thoughts here and you may well be right but I think they can speed up the Intercity under this configuration before the signaling upgrade is implemented but the crossing at Wolli Creek may be the killer.

I also think that they will be able to run all stoppers from Hurstville under this same configuraton but I guess it will be a wait and see, type deal.

 

[OZ Rails]

Rail union gets veto over staffing on new trains that could delay rollout

The rollout of Sydney’s new multibillion-dollar fleet of intercity trains could be delayed after the rail union was handed a veto power.

www.smh.com.au

RTBU NSW secretary Alex Claassens believes the government cannot introduce the new trains, which cost $2.4 billion and are made in South Korea, without coming to a deal with the union after the ruling.

“No, we don’t think they can,” Mr Claassens said. “Our position would be they can’t because they’ve got to reach some agreement with us.”

“This decision quite clearly says we were right and they were wrong... so it’s back to the negotiating table for them.”

The government could also try to change the enterprise agreement, which would also require the workers’ approval or attempt a rarely-used process to terminate agreements once it formally expires.


I'm guessing this means no DOO for the Sydney/ NSW trains network for the foreseeable future. I dont think they will take this fight on. Easier to just build more Driver-less Metro, rather than risk the Union trying to shut down the network etc.

 

[Khaul]

^^They could just let a private operator to run the intercity trains. Hankyu would be nice.

 

[OZ Rails]

^^They could just let a private operator to run the intercity trains. Hankyu would be nice.

I would imagine a move like that would just see the union hit the Sydney trains network with disruptions instead (plus NSW trains until the change over). I dont think this Government has enough political capital left for such a change and no way Labor would do it. I think it would be at least a decade before this may be on the table.

 

[Khaul]

It has to happen, sooner or later. The public can see how the ferries, buses, metro and light rail are all run by private operators and it is far from the end of the world.

 

[historyworks]

I'm guessing this means no DOO for the Sydney/ NSW trains network for the foreseeable future. I dont think they will take this fight on. Easier to just build more Driver-less Metro, rather than risk the Union trying to shut down the network etc.

The union is shooting itself in the foot. All it will achieve is increase the incentive for governments to extend the metro, both new lines and converting sections of existing line. But unions have a habit of doing that - destroying whole industries and putting their members out of jobs while the union executives, who couldn't care less, go on to line successful careers as Labor politicians, forever whinging how their former members were put out of work by cruel employers.

 

[AtD]

I would imagine a move like that would just see the union hit the Sydney trains network with disruptions instead (plus NSW trains until the change over). I dont think this Government has enough political capital left for such a change and no way Labor would do it. I think it would be at least a decade before this may be on the table.

Such a move would backfire against the union IMO. There's already a lot of anger over train delays. This would make the union a convenient scapegoat for the government.

 

[OZ Rails]

Such a move would backfire against the union IMO. There's already a lot of anger over train delays. This would make the union a convenient scapegoat for the government.

Certainly you would get some blowback from some commuters but you would still get some who support the union and the staff who they would see as losing their jobs so the Libs can hand the publically owned railways to their "fat cat private sector mates" and "raise ticket prices and cut services". Especially to the west, etc.

Plus the reality is that train commuters are a relatively small number of people in our state, a traditionally Labor state with many who have certain ideals and beliefs regarding the private sector running state assets, true or not. It's another benefit of the Metro, the way it's been implemented.

It's not hard to politicise all this and I think Labor state and Federal would have a field day with it. I wish it was not the case but I can see it.