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Moon Transit
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Discussion Starter #1
It about time for a separate thread, instead of having half in the jibber jabber of the General PT Thread and other half in the Airport thread.

Besides, we have threads for similar in Perth and Sydney etc, I think there will be much more said over the coming days and years.

Summary of the news:

Melbourne Airport train link: Malcolm Turnbull pledges $5 billion for long-awaited rail line to CBD
By political reporter Stephen Dziedzic and state political reporter Richard Willingham, Updated about an hour ago
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-11/melbourne-airport-rail-link-gets-$5bn-from-federal-government/9643054

The Prime Minister has pledged up to $5 billion to help build the long-awaited rail link from Melbourne Airport to the CBD.

Key points:
•The "time for talk is over," Malcolm Turnbull says
•The PM wants the Victorian Government to match its pledge
•Last year, the Victorian Government said it wanted to build the rail link within a decade

A Melbourne Airport train line has been debated and planned for decades, but Malcolm Turnbull has declared his funding promise will ensure it becomes a reality. "The time for talk is over. There have been countless reviews, reports and recommendations but Melbourne is still waiting for a service almost all of the world's great cities take for granted," Mr Turnbull said. "This is the rail link that Melbourne, Victoria and the millions of people who use the airport every year demand and deserve."

While the funding announcement is significant, the $5 billion pledged will not be enough to cover the entire cost of the project. Mr Turnbull will today ratchet up pressure on the Victorian Government to make a matching commitment and pour in another $5 billion.

Last year, the Victorian Andrews Government announced it wanted to build an airport rail link within a decade. "We're already committed to a rail link to the airport and we're obviously happy to work with any Commonwealth Government on this project," Victoria's Minister for Public Transport, Jacinta Allan, said in response to the Turnbull Government announcement. "It's good the Prime Minister has finally found Victoria on a map, and we'll accept this funding given how much he short-changes our state."

Ms Allan said Victoria's plan for an airport rail link included fast rail to the regions and it was "concerning" that only one of four possible routes proposed by the Commonwealth would allow for this. The Victorian Government says it wants the airport link to "untangle" regional and metropolitan rail services, arguing boosting regional services would maximise the benefits of the link and ensure it did not simply become an "expensive funnel" between the airport and CBD.

The Federal Government has not committed to that idea, but it has not yet ruled it out either. Congestion has been steadily worsening in Melbourne, and the Prime Minister said building the link would "slash travel times, bust congestion, boost the Victorian economy and create thousands of new jobs". "We are under no illusion that such a city-shaping project does not come cheap. That is why we are making such a significant commitment," Mr Turnbull said. "We want the Victorian Government to partner with us in a true 50:50 funding partnership to build and own this iconic piece of infrastructure. We also welcome the involvement of the private sector."

The Coalition has already committed $30 million to put together a business case for the rail line — and Mr Turnbull said that would provide a clearer picture of the best route, as well as the project's final price tag.

Victorian Liberal leader Matthew Guy was quick to pounce on the announcement. "$5 billion! If the Andrews Govt won't build an airport rail link, it's outstanding to see the federal Liberal National government will," he said on Twitter.
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Moon Transit
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Discussion Starter #2
The PM is expected to make more announcements today.

In the meantime, there is some background info from 2013 (but the idea goes back a lot longer)
https://static.ptv.vic.gov.au/siteassets/PTV/PTV docs/Feasibility-Studies/Melbourne-Airport-Rail-Link-Study-Overview-brochure.pdf

Page 9 of the above includes a map of the MARL route options below

See also https://urban.melbourne/transport/2017/06/02/setting-scope-upcoming-30-million-melbourne-airport-rail-link-study

Here is a monorail idea:
https://www.monorailsaustralia.com.au/airport.html


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Moon Transit
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Discussion Starter #4
The direct route is crap. Who goes to Highpoint from the CBD or Airport? If it's all about trying to make the redevelopment at the Defence site at Maribyrong viable then that doesn't seem like good planning to me. The Albion East route offers wider connections to the rest of Melbourne's west and the regional routes with a stop at Sunshine. It was the preferred route in the 2013 study because it offered no more than a single transfer from anywhere in the Metro network.

Personally I prefer the proposal by the Rail Futures Institute which build on this route and has connections beyond the Airport to Bendigo and the NE line. That would be a game changer for regional people as still have all the benefits of a fast shuttle Airport to CBD.

http://www.railfutures.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/171026-RFI-InterCity-Presentation-Regional-Cities-Victoria-v.21783-004.pdf
Agree, I think the Albion East is the preferred anyway with the best connections. It is the base case and the others are expensive, merely added to get some discussion.

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IMO, have the line continue to Sunbury and Ballarat, have it interchange with the northern RRL lines at Airport West and continue it through MM2 to the Werribee lines.

The line is more direct, picks up an area that is a bit of a black hole from a PT perspective. It was the only corridor that really competed with bus lanes for trip time if my calculations were correct.
 

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WARREN
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I don't see why this needs it's own thread seeing that it won't be built (they're just playing politics).

Anyway here's the most cost effective way to do it.
$15bil for an airport line is gold plating. Albion route is fine and won't cost that much unless the CFMEU boys get paid $1000/hr to build it.

Should be plenty of track capacity to go around between the CBD and Sunshine under L2's plan presuming:

- Airport line stops all stations to soak up commuter demand from that section, rather than doing the Brisbane thing of having 20% full airport trains leaving the CBD at 5pm whilst other lines are crush loaded. Still not that many stops to the CBD.

- One intermediate commuter station on the airport branch somewhere in the Keilor East area

- 9 carriage trains in use hence 60% capacity boost per service

Heck you could probably cut back the number of peak train services to Watergardens if they all ran with 9 cars and the inner section of the line was being soaked up by airport services.

Goal would be for a reliable journey time of around 30 minutes to Melbourne Airport - not that unfeasible as Albion is currently 20 minutes out by rail. Still a highly competitive journey time compared to peak freeway traffic.

Now before someone says "but what about COMENGS to MELTON!!!", the solution is simple - there wouldn't be any. I'd run something like these monsters for those western lines which can soak up passengers like no tomorrow which wouldn't stretch the capacity of the RRL lines - you have any idea how many people a 10 car set of these fits?



Of course I know they'll never take my advice, but I'm just saying what could be done ;)
 

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What's the trip time between the CBD and the airport via Melbourne stopping all stations? I doubt you'd achieve a 30min trip time at all.

It still makes buses faster.
 

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I don't see why this needs it's own thread seeing that it won't be built (they're just playing politics).

Anyway here's the most cost effective way to do it.
I find the price tag a bit excessive as well. They must be including new rail stock and lots of tunnelling. Will the track be standard, wide or dual guage?
 

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What's the trip time between the CBD and the airport via Melbourne stopping all stations? I doubt you'd achieve a 30min trip time at all.

It still makes buses faster.
But buses are ALWAYS dependant on the traffic. Trains aren't.
I don't think the actual travel time is too much of an issue. I don't care of it takes an hour to get to the airport....as long as I know that it will definitely be an hour, it's more around consistency and planning your trip according to the train link times.
As it is, using the bus can be a right nightmare....I have turned up 3 hours early for flights and also missed flights all due to the bus and different traffic conditions. The train would eliminate all of this.
 

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Melbourne needs a rapid transit light rail system that follows the Tullamarine Freeway corridor to Essendon Airport cutting across the eastern side and rejoining the Tulla with grade separation at the terminals. Modern articulated trams could have dedicated rack areas for luggage and not require the massive reservations of land heavy rail needs. A lighter version of skyrail construction could be built above or beside the freeway and give travellers fast efficient access to Melbourne. I can't imagine how bad it would be to arrive in Melbourne stopping at western suburb stations enjoying local hospitality for a hour along the route...and being offered or asked for drugs...with your luggage stolen at knifepoint.
 

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But buses are ALWAYS dependant on the traffic. Trains aren't.
I don't think the actual travel time is too much of an issue. I don't care of it takes an hour to get to the airport....as long as I know that it will definitely be an hour, it's more around consistency and planning your trip according to the train link times.
As it is, using the bus can be a right nightmare....I have turned up 3 hours early for flights and also missed flights all due to the bus and different traffic conditions. The train would eliminate all of this.
Sorry, I was alluding to a dedicated Busway the whole way for far far cheaper than an Albion oriented line.
 

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WARREN
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What's the trip time between the CBD and the airport via Melbourne stopping all stations? I doubt you'd achieve a 30min trip time at all.

It still makes buses faster.
CBD to Albion is 20 minutes (all stations) and could be made slightly quicker. 30 minutes to the airport, stopping all stations is perfectly achievable and reasonable.

Yes, I know that the Skybus is quicker to the airport in the middle of the night when there is no traffic or roadworks. It's also much slower in peak.

Who cares? How many places are there 20km from the CBD that are quicker to reach by train than car at 3am?
 

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But you could easily make it a consistent, low time trip on bus just by extending bus lanes the whole way and enforcing this.

I think you massively underestimate the cost of the Albion route. I'm personally guessing $5B
 

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Yes. Extensive tunneling, bridge reconstruction and land resumptions are required.
Yep. The tunneling involved for the Highpoint options is certainly a significant financial outlay.

There will be costs across the board, given that additional track will need to be created to facilitate even the favoured option via Albion.

Given that planned Melton metro expansion (big growth corridor) , the current Sunbury line and also the country trains running along the tracks up to the RRL junction at Sunshine, there are some big investments that would need to be made to handle the additional services.

There’s a lot of politics in this move, but it will need to happen soon.
 

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Another point to raise is the location of the station. Rather than having an underground tunnel station, costing a lot, I'd prefer them to place the station next to t1, where the freeway is located (in a north south alignment).

This way it would be easier to have the vlines as it could be a ground level and if there was any distance to the terminal, they could easily add travelators to span the few hundred metres distance.
 

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For $5bn you want major changes to city shaping, not just a bus replacement.

Fed money should be contingent on significant rezoning along the rail corridor to high density mixed use, both to boost the business case of the line and to relieve pressure on sprawl. The state should commit to overruling NIMBYs and taking their share of that political hit.

Otherwise it's just a pork barrel.
 

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This is what I said to L2 when he asked my opinions on the proposed Federal alignment.

Firstly it is purely so that they can sell off the Maribyrnong defence site... It's costing them a huge amount of money, and the proposed 6,000 dwellings on the site won't pay for it's remediation. Putting the rail line through there means that they could probably get 18,000 dwellings on the site.

And now for the alignment...

You have a 24tph capacity on the Sunbury line. There's a train every 8 min or so in peak periods so 8tph. That leaves you 16tph. You could set it so 12tph to Sunbury 12tph to airport. New 7 carriage high capacity trains hold 1500 - so that's 17,000 people an hour capacity to Sunbury. Should be enough capacity.

Resignal south Kensington to Watergardens or St Albans. That'd enable you to get up to 115 km hr - that'd drop the travel time to sunshine by about 5 min. Close middle Footscray - there's a2 min saving as it's insanely close to the other two stations.

As for the regional rail line. 24tph capacity as well.

Separate the trains out properly. Let's say 6tph to Lara
6tph to Bacchus Marsh - they're the commuter services. Let's say in the interim run by a 9vlo until new fleet can be ordered - that's approximately 600 seated and you'd probably be able to get another 150-250 standing. So that's capacity for approx 5k hour to both commuter lines.

Then you have 3tph express from Geelong Ballarat Bendigo and Kyneton which gives you the capacity needed for RRL. you run the 3tph services as 9vlo. Thsat'll provide enough capacity in the short medium term. In the longer term you add new tracks into Sunshine, and then use the Bunbury St tunnel into SSS as the freight utilises so little of the existing capacity that way. Just redesign how the line works through Dynon yard, then you've got the potential capacity for 60 trains per hour from Sunshine into SSS.

That if just using velocity trains is capacity for 60,000 pax an hour in peak periods
 
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