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Champagne Socialist
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Discussion Starter #21
I did this in the last thread.

Starting at Cheltenham and working anti-clockwise, this is the existing development pipeline for high density resi.

Cheltenham ~2 projects.
Clayton 5-6 projects
Monash/Monash University - see NEIC comments above, there's a scattering of projects within that area now - will see major change.
Glen Waverley6 projects
Burwood ~5 within walking distance of Deakin.
Box Hill ~30 projects.
Doncaster ~20 projects
Heidelberg ~15 projects
Bundoora has a few away from the University, but it's an NEIC, see the video below - it's from 2014 but highlights what La Trobe were thinking even back then way before the SRL was even thought of.
Reservoir - ~5 projects
Fawkner has a fair few townhouse/small apartment developments in the area
Broadmeadows - only has 1 project but also has a planning process underway to shake things up a bit: https://vpa.vic.gov.au/project/greater-broadmeadows/

Monash NEIC: https://vpa.vic.gov.au/project/monash-employment-cluster/
La Trobe NEIC: https://vpa.vic.gov.au/project/la-trobe-employment-cluster/
Sunshine NEIC: https://vpa.vic.gov.au/project/sunshine-employment-cluster/

La Trobe's masterplan from 2014
 

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I hope that SRL is a metro
The logic says it must be, or at least a frequent, automated, separated network which is essentially the same thing

Anything that’s primary purpose is interchange has to be frequent or it fails. Patronage on a line that’s built for the long term is going to grow over time but won’t be massive to start with. These things together mean automation is a must to avoid a big opex drain on state resources
 

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Lord Melbourne
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You think Mount Waverly is the better option?
Not necessarily, just that servicing Glen Waverly creates a rather large dogleg to get out there.

One thing GW has going for it is the construction boom with a number of towers going up ontop of the Glen and in the surrounding areas.
 

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Let's put it another way. What's the best station on the Glen Waverly line to interchange with and why?

I picked mount Waverley as it's the only logical station without the dog leg.
 

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Champagne Socialist
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Discussion Starter #25
For a straight-ish line, I'd agree with Mount Waverley. It's just that it would probably end up like Town Hall or State Library: small surface access point / savern station hollowed out below. There's a commuter car park on the up side of the existing platforms that might work that.

Monash University's station would be... interesting. 'scuse the l33t paint skillz, however:



Red Box = where the Vic Heart Hospital is going
Blue Line = Rowville Light Rail (remember that?)
Yellow Box = SRL loop station location (tracks basically running n-s under or next to Blackburn Road.

Totally forgot the new heart hospital will be taking up land on the campus (fronting Blackburn Road)



And Monash has so many car parks it could conceivably turf students/staff out of and redevelop - just look at them in the screener above! (they even utilise the one to the south of the Synchrotron: https://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/71686/3-Claytoncolour.pdf
 

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Let's put it another way. What's the best station on the Glen Waverly line to interchange with and why?

I picked mount Waverley as it's the only logical station without the dog leg.
...but GW gets us connected to Springvale road...a good thing in the wider context and connects into GW's energy into the future.
 

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The logic says it must be, or at least a frequent, automated, separated network which is essentially the same thing



Anything that’s primary purpose is interchange has to be frequent or it fails. Patronage on a line that’s built for the long term is going to grow over time but won’t be massive to start with. These things together mean automation is a must to avoid a big opex drain on state resources


I hope it will be, with driverless trains, but the ARL May be an issue.
 

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For a straight-ish line, I'd agree with Mount Waverley. It's just that it would probably end up like Town Hall or State Library: small surface access point / savern station hollowed out below. There's a commuter car park on the up side of the existing platforms that might work that.

Monash University's station would be... interesting. 'scuse the l33t paint skillz, however:



Red Box = where the Vic Heart Hospital is going
Blue Line = Rowville Light Rail (remember that?)
Yellow Box = SRL loop station location (tracks basically running n-s under or next to Blackburn Road.

Totally forgot the new heart hospital will be taking up land on the campus (fronting Blackburn Road)



And Monash has so many car parks it could conceivably turf students/staff out of and redevelop - just look at them in the screener above! (they even utilise the one to the south of the Synchrotron: https://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/71686/3-Claytoncolour.pdf


I personally would be aimed for a station box at the forecourt near the bus interchange, and, if possible, a station entrance on the southern side of Wellington Road near Parker Street.



With the limited number of stations, I'm a much bigger fan of a Glen Waverly as there is a far greater chance of significant development. With the cost of the line and the small number of stations, it's the big increase in development and the interchange that will get this up.
 

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I think the station location at Monash is the factor which will determine the best Glen Waverley interchange.

To my basic investigations you have four classes of options (each with suboptions:
1) Boundary Road (north-south alignment) - Acquire houses on western side of Boundary Rd or use West car parks. This option suits connection to Mt Waverley by keeping shorter alignment length, thus reducing cost.
2) Research Way (east-west alignment) - This option would facilitate the eventual redevelopment of the CSIRO campus. Given one of the easiest ways to make transport projects stack up is to link them directly to supporting housing construction, this option could be attractive. As this alignment would have already turned away from Mt Waverley, this option suits continuing to Glen Waverley.
3) Wellington Road (east-west alignment) - Interchange benefits with bus interchange and future Rowville Light Rail. As this alignment would have already turned away from Mt Waverley, this option suits continuing to Glen Waverley.
4) Blackburn Road (north-south alignment) - opens up station accessibility to areas east of Blackburn Road and directly services the new heart hospital. This option could service either Mt Waverley or Glen Waverley equally, however this option might not work depending on the station box location at Clayton (i.e. if it's beside Clayton Road, north of Clayton Station there's two tight curves to get the alignment in place to a station box beside Blackburn Road near the Synchrotron. I would think that would probably be the most likely location for Clayton in order to maximise accessibility to Monash Hospital).

Going to Glen Waverley does however mean it's a substantially longer distance to Burwood, however I wouldn't be surprised if this could be justified by the higher patronage to that station.
 

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^^Agree.

I would add though at places such as Monash, they will really be trying to pump the employment uses and get the residential elsewhere. I'd see keeping the CSIRO near the Monash campus would be a really big element in all of this.
 

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I'm still hoping that the SRL would avoid Sunshine and go Airport-Watergardens-Caroline Springs-Tarneit-WV-Weribee.

Alas it seems all but a thought bubble now
 

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^^Agree.

I would add though at places such as Monash, they will really be trying to pump the employment uses and get the residential elsewhere. I'd see keeping the CSIRO near the Monash campus would be a really big element in all of this.
I agree that you probably would want to retain CSIRO on their site, however the site has so much under-utilised space, that it could be redeveloped into new facilities for CSIRO, plus additional research space, plus housing development.
 

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Correct it is (slightly more than) a thought bubble at the moment. That thought bubble was to connect all of the major employment areas with rail. Sunshine is one of these areas and Watergardens is not. This is the big reason why Sunshine has been chosen.
 

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Champagne Socialist
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Discussion Starter #35
Drawing lines on maps, so much fun. :)

This one below measures just on 25km (the main red/pink line is 23.5km and either going to Cheltenham or Southland adds approx 1.5km)



Click the image to look at the GMAP. Added two future stage stations in - one at Cochranes Road and one at Brandon Park, zoom right in on the station area, have put some approximations into the underground footprints, illustrating connections to other buildings/stations/entrances (I didn't bother with Box Hill, too complex).
 

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Rabid Furry Skier
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Drawing lines on maps, so much fun. :)

This one below measures just on 25km (the main red/pink line is 23.5km and either going to Cheltenham or Southland adds approx 1.5km)

Click the image to look at the GMAP. Added two future stage stations in - one at Cochranes Road and one at Brandon Park, zoom right in on the station area, have put some approximations into the underground footprints, illustrating connections to other buildings/stations/entrances (I didn't bother with Box Hill, too complex).
Kind of hoping that it goes to Cheltenham instead of the Southland shopping centre. I feel that the shopping centre is more for the local regional area traffic, whereas Cheltenham is more viable in terms of housing and employment which may benefit more with a wider area connection and be better utilised over the entire day instead of just the shopping centre trading hours.
 

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Champagne Socialist
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Discussion Starter #37
Kind of hoping that it goes to Cheltenham instead of the Southland shopping centre. I feel that the shopping centre is more for the local regional area traffic, whereas Cheltenham is more viable in terms of housing and employment which may benefit more with a wider area connection and be better utilised over the entire day instead of just the shopping centre trading hours.
Sound logic, I only put the either/or in because it's probably a genuine question they're trying to decide between.

Cheltenham is surrounded by Kingston's Activity Centre Zone, Southland is Commercial Zone 1 and has some Residential Growth zone to the north.

Plus the more frustrating thing? Cheltenham's already been redesigned for the Level Crossing removal project and will see change and now Kingston is calling for more community space at the station.

 

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Correct it is (slightly more than) a thought bubble at the moment. That thought bubble was to connect all of the major employment areas with rail. Sunshine is one of these areas and Watergardens is not. This is the big reason why Sunshine has been chosen.
Sunshine is too close to the city. It'd be like making the SRL go from South Yarra to Burnley to Clifton Hill. :eek:hno:

No reason why watergardens couldn't be the box hill of the west, except for the political will to do so.
 

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Except Sunshine is about twice the distance from SXS as Clifton Hill (and it's also on that side of the city. South Yarra is even closer. It's nothing alike.


Great work Tayser!


BTW, you'd save about 700m aligning the Glen Waverly station with Myrtle Street and skipping Brandon Park ;)

I'm also a big fan of terminating at Moorabbin Station. But I very much doubt that will happen.
 

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Drawing lines on maps, so much fun. :)

This one below measures just on 25km (the main red/pink line is 23.5km and either going to Cheltenham or Southland adds approx 1.5km)



Click the image to look at the GMAP. Added two future stage stations in - one at Cochranes Road and one at Brandon Park, zoom right in on the station area, have put some approximations into the underground footprints, illustrating connections to other buildings/stations/entrances (I didn't bother with Box Hill, too complex).
In the 20 to 40 year future I see elevated lightrail using both the Stud Road and the Springvale road routes to do a fast north south regional loop connecting (on the main roads where employment, education, retail and all services are all located) Dandenong , Keysborough, Springvale, Mulgrave Wheelers Hill, GW, Forest Hill, Nunawading, Mountain Hwy, Ringwood, Wantirna, Knoxfield, Rowville, Dandenong. Compromise stopping spacing...three tracks most places.
 
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