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Kind of hoping that it goes to Cheltenham instead of the Southland shopping centre. I feel that the shopping centre is more for the local regional area traffic, whereas Cheltenham is more viable in terms of housing and employment which may benefit more with a wider area connection and be better utilised over the entire day instead of just the shopping centre trading hours.
But, what if we find that retail continues to crash/evolve (ps, it will) and these enormous centres take on a character more akin to regional, professional, consultative and government services centres?
 

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Champagne Socialist
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Discussion Starter #45
Except Sunshine is about twice the distance from SXS as Clifton Hill (and it's also on that side of the city. South Yarra is even closer. It's nothing alike.


Great work Tayser!


BTW, you'd save about 700m aligning the Glen Waverly station with Myrtle Street and skipping Brandon Park ;)

I'm also a big fan of terminating at Moorabbin Station. But I very much doubt that will happen.
Another point: Brandon Park is roughly half way, a good spot for TBMs to be launched/extracted (then put a station in at a later stage)?

Also, frig knows where to put a maintenance depot/storage.
 

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^^Maintenance depot/storage at one of the Golf Courses west of Cheltenham? Could start as a TBM drop in point with Box Hill Gardens on the northern end, especially as you'll need an overshoot from the actual station to make allowances for future stages.



The quarry/mine just to the west of Carroll Road in Oakleigh South has merit.
 

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WARREN
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Yeah why not just get one of the famous and prized sandbelt golf courses for a choo choo depot. Why have The Presidents Cup when you can have a railway yard!

I suppose it would fit in nicely with the general theme of Melbourne continually deteriorating as the years go on.
 

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WARREN
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Cheltenham Golf Course hosted the Presidents cup?
Not that specific one, but the Royal Melbourne Golf Club will be hosting it in December. Potentially with President Trump in attendance this time ;)

The Cheltenham, Victoria, Royal Melbourne and Sandringham Golf Courses/Clubs are basically all conjoined to each other btw.

Also, golf courses are a sign of progress?
The area is well known around the world for it's golf clubs and the championship events held there. It's not just "some golf courses".

Anyway if you need land for a depot in that area then there used to still be a few market gardens around Heatherton. The 821 bus used to go past them.
 

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Not that specific one, but the Royal Melbourne Golf Club will be hosting it in December. Potentially with President Trump in attendance this time ;)

The Cheltenham, Victoria, Royal Melbourne and Sandringham Golf Courses/Clubs are basically all conjoined to each other btw.

The area is well known around the world for it's golf clubs and the championship events held there. It's not just "some golf courses".

Sure, but you'd only need Cheltenham and maybe a couple of small resumptions otherwise.


Anyway if you need land for a depot in that area then there used to still be a few market gardens around Heatherton. The 821 bus used to go past them.

That's also an option. Depends on many factors as to where would be best for stabling, maintenance, TBM launch sites etc.
 

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Oh, and the Carroll Road site is actually a transfer station/tip, so that probably rules it out unfortunately.

Just to the west of Dandenong Road in Heatherton may be the place to target.
 

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Drawing lines on maps, so much fun. :)

This one below measures just on 25km (the main red/pink line is 23.5km and either going to Cheltenham or Southland adds approx 1.5km)



Click the image to look at the GMAP. Added two future stage stations in - one at Cochranes Road and one at Brandon Park, zoom right in on the station area, have put some approximations into the underground footprints, illustrating connections to other buildings/stations/entrances (I didn't bother with Box Hill, too complex).
I love what you've done, however I think your station boxes might be a bit small at 140m. By the time you extend them out to 200m, that might cause some issues with curves between Clayton and Monash.

It would be great if you could mark out stabling locations also. I like the Carroll Rd site, but if that's unsuitable (due to being a former tip), then the Heatherton Sands (Old Dandenong Road) site will work. As a size comparison, Sydney Metro Northwest's Tallawong depot covers about 20ha, while the Heatherton Sands site is 56ha, so heaps of space.
 

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I love what you've done, however I think your station boxes might be a bit small at 140m. By the time you extend them out to 200m, that might cause some issues with curves between Clayton and Monash.
I'd be surprised if they went with platforms that long. I'd hope (and imagine) they'd use the opportunity to go with a shorter automatic trains at a higher frequency. The Expo line in Vancouver has trains only about 70m long but still manages to move 290,000 people a day.

I also imagine they'll be looking to cut costs (especially running costs) any way they can given they've committed to going underground the whole way.
 

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Lord Melbourne
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For a straight-ish line, I'd agree with Mount Waverley. It's just that it would probably end up like Town Hall or State Library: small surface access point / savern station hollowed out below. There's a commuter car park on the up side of the existing platforms that might work that.

Monash University's station would be... interesting. 'scuse the l33t paint skillz, however:



Red Box = where the Vic Heart Hospital is going
Blue Line = Rowville Light Rail (remember that?)
Yellow Box = SRL loop station location (tracks basically running n-s under or next to Blackburn Road.

Totally forgot the new heart hospital will be taking up land on the campus (fronting Blackburn Road)



And Monash has so many car parks it could conceivably turf students/staff out of and redevelop - just look at them in the screener above! (they even utilise the one to the south of the Synchrotron: https://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/71686/3-Claytoncolour.pdf
Yellow area is the site of the near heart hospital, to be built very soon, so no bueno.



I personally would be aimed for a station box at the forecourt near the bus interchange, and, if possible, a station entrance on the southern side of Wellington Road near Parker Street.



With the limited number of stations, I'm a much bigger fan of a Glen Waverly as there is a far greater chance of significant development. With the cost of the line and the small number of stations, it's the big increase in development and the interchange that will get this up.

Dig up these carparks (purple), relocate the bus interchange (orange) there when the station is built in 2028 or whenever so it is integrated, locate an exit on the south side of Wellington Road with a tram stop in the median for the future tramline.

This then allows Monash to build structures ontop of the station and lets them redevelop the existing bus interchange as well.

Admittedly, it serves the university more than the wider monash/mulgrave area, but the tramline would help that.

This location is also more inline with Clayton station to the south west than if it were located on the corner of Blackburn road and Wellington.

 

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Lord Melbourne
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In terms of a depot at Heatherton, the heatherton sands side is 1km long, generally flat area which they are making hills or digging up anyway so it can easily be leveled off. Remaining land can be used to extend Karkarook Park and a future new suburb on the land.

It aligns pretty well with any route between Cheltenham and Clayton station and the orange square is Bald Hill Park which a section could be used as a works zone.

A surface station could be built alongside the depot (or plan for one) for future use or as a bus interchange for Warrigal Road/South Road (via extension) routes. While the office park could see redevelopment and densification in the future.

 

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It would be great if you could mark out stabling locations also. I like the Carroll Rd site, but if that's unsuitable (due to being a former tip), then the Heatherton Sands (Old Dandenong Road) site will work. As a size comparison, Sydney Metro Northwest's Tallawong depot covers about 20ha, while the Heatherton Sands site is 56ha, so heaps of space.
Heatherton / Clarinda / Clayton South has had maybe 8 or 10 separate tips within a 2 or 3 square km area. However the depot will need to be somewhere in that vicinity, there’s nowhere else along the whole route to Box Hill, with enough spare undeveloped land.
 

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Champagne Socialist
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Discussion Starter #59
I'd be surprised if they went with platforms that long. I'd hope (and imagine) they'd use the opportunity to go with a shorter automatic trains at a higher frequency. The Expo line in Vancouver has trains only about 70m long but still manages to move 290,000 people a day.

I also imagine they'll be looking to cut costs (especially running costs) any way they can given they've committed to going underground the whole way.
The Canada Line rolling stock are much shorter than 70m! Without undertaking major redevelopment works at each station, adding a shorter third car will bring total train length to 50m: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyTrain_rolling_stock#Hyundai_Rotem_EMU_fleet

I too hope for an automated system which has a focus on frequency rather than large capacity. If you take the government's figures at their word: 400,000 passengers per day when the systems fully open, that's 146,000,000 p/a - still about 25% less than PAris' M1 line (~210,000,000 pax per annum) and its trains are 90m long: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_05 (not to mention only 2.4m wide as opposed to the standard 3m width on Melbourne's existing fleet).
 

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Champagne Socialist
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Discussion Starter #60
Same map as before updated with a second phase layer.

I suppose you might be able to put a station somewhere in Bulleen, but for the most part, all the gaps between the existing rail lines (and therefore interchange stations) are just fairly bog-standard suburban areas that wouldn't warrant a station.



The line measures 33.9km as is (which I'd point out ends just east of the airport precinct - I didn't bother at that point (like Box Hill) because it's too complex) so it'd be a little longer.

And yet we don't know if the SRL is going to be the same system/trains as MARL and whether or not Melbourne Airport's station will be through lines / multiple terminating platforms (that one day might keep going under the airport up to Bendigo/Wallan like RFI's plan - that would pretty much make the 'SRL' terminate at the airport and MARL will be a separate system, but still facilitate connections to allow loop journeys from the north to west).

Lots of moving parts but one thing I'd like to see: Doncaster should be phase 1 terminus so Manningham CC can stop saying they're the only municipality without a train/tram service (lol) but really there's more space - i.e car parks - in Doncaster that can be used for construction compared to Box Hill where'd there'd probably have to be a lot of demolition (maybe even regardless).

And the other end, MARL should terminate at Broady from day 1 so those living on the Craigieburn line and not living in Kensington or North Melbourne can access the airport by rail as well.

The land east of the airport - the reserve under the final approach to Runway 27 would likely be the best candidate for a maintenance depot (and this ties into MARL as well - hence terminate the line at Broadmeadows from day 1) - suppose this could be a surface section as well (despite it being a hilly area).

Can see that the entire Northern section will be fast, if the system's trains allowed it - like 4-6km station spacing, having only 80 or 100kph train seems a bit of a waste, 130kph trains would be able to open right up in those relatively straight and long tunnels. I've seen some commentary elsewhere that the system needs stopping all and express services - meh, assuming the system's trains will be able to do 100kph or higher, express services is really moot.
 
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