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In saying North Shore I really meant the north-east of Sydney, in pointing out that there are plenty of other industrial areas in the vicinity of Artarmon. It's not as if you would have to drive 30km to find a smash repair shop.

I'm not saying all industrial areas near the CBD have to go, but if you are going to go the expense of building a metro line for an eight-figure sum, then you should figure out how to get the most use of it, and that would entail tailoring land use to maximise patronage, rather than junking station locations because the land use isn't ideal. Cowtowing to NIMBYist resistance against redeveloping low-density residential areas is one thing (I get that people have an attachment to their neighbourhood), but foregoing brownfield redevelopment of industrial land seems particularly short-sighted.
 

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rather than junking station locations because the land use isn't ideal.
A little bit of a simplification of the situation there, no? It's not that these sites aren't ideal, in fact, the opposite. They have been seen as ideal to remain.


As stated elsewhere, Sydney, unlike Melbourne and Brisbane, actually has a lack of industrial spread through the city and that's not a good thing. The North Shore was already served and the metro was better designed to have a faster trip than to convert what was seen to be an important land use into mixed use.
 

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You cant really compare Artarmon and Silverwater. There really is nothing else to service the catchment that is serviced by Artarmon. You wouldnt be servicing the lower and upper North Shore from Brookvale, Manly Vale or Frenches Forrest. They service their catchment on the Northern Beaches. Lane Cove West and Castle Cove are more complementary to Artarmon then able to replace it. Especially regarding road access. Artarmon really is the only option for large parts of the lower and upper North Shore.

Silverwater however, its surrounded by large swathes of Industrial in nearly all directions. Camellia is no longer being developed as its too difficult, Rydalmere will remain industrial too as far as we know. You then have Auburn next to Silverwater, up the road Regants Park/ Sefton, Chester Hill, Chullora/ Greenacre and Strathfield South/ Greenacre. All backed up by decent road corridors that also connect directly to the outer west with tonnes of industrial of all sizes.
 

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Sure they are very different in the areas they service. They are also very different in the uses able to setup and operate there.
 

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La Urbanista
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Camellia is no longer being developed as its too difficult
I thought this as well. But why then is the Camellia Town Centre East project on that list of projects for Dept Planning to expedite?! So confuse.

It seems they will develop up the area outlined in red still, but leave the wider area industrial. Maybe the line should have had stations on the red stars, so you service Camellia Town Centre interchanging with city pax from Carlo Light Rail + Newington Town Centre with SOME redevelopment of East Silverwater.

109098
 

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La Urbanista
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Up to 10,000 apartments are forecast in the town centre. That's dense AF. Should provide good patronage to the light rail and to Parramatta Metro Station.

109104
 

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Disregarding the density issue, I would have thought one of the major potential benefits of the Artarmon Industrial Area station would have been as a potential bus interchange with the Gore Hill Freeway?
 

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Disregarding the density issue, I would have thought one of the major potential benefits of the Artarmon Industrial Area station would have been as a potential bus interchange with the Gore Hill Freeway?
Similarly, I vaguely recall there were scrapped plans for a bus interchange on the freeway to serve North Sydney (probably as a part of B-Line). As a part of the Gore Hill Fwy upgrade plans it would've been nice to have a stop reasonably close to the new Victoria Cross station - there are a lot of lanes alongside North Sydney CBD while there will only ever be 8 lanes available on the bridge.

Would certainly help cut down on the difficulty of travelling between North Sydney/Crows Nest etc. from the Northern Beaches (there's over a dozen random peak-only routes, and routes like 144 are crowded but very slow). Not sure how feasible it would be, however.
 

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Similarly, I vaguely recall there were scrapped plans for a bus interchange on the freeway to serve North Sydney (probably as a part of B-Line). As a part of the Gore Hill Fwy upgrade plans it would've been nice to have a stop reasonably close to the new Victoria Cross station - there are a lot of lanes alongside North Sydney CBD while there will only ever be 8 lanes available on the bridge.

Would certainly help cut down on the difficulty of travelling between North Sydney/Crows Nest etc. from the Northern Beaches (there's over a dozen random peak-only routes, and routes like 144 are crowded but very slow). Not sure how feasible it would be, however.
Not a bus interchange in any grand sense, they're just spruiking the Beaches Link project as easing connection to Victoria Cross and North Sydney for buses as well as the improved southbound bus lane.
 

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La Urbanista
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Disregarding the density issue, I would have thought one of the major potential benefits of the Artarmon Industrial Area station would have been as a potential bus interchange with the Gore Hill Freeway?
For what services? Majority of buses on the motorway are Hillsbuses which shouldn't even exist, should be feeding into the metro in the north west.
 

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Calls for Camellia metro station again.

Sydney Metro West: Western Sydney business leaders call for station at Camellia
It was the Sydney Metro west station site expected to kickstart an economic hub for more than 130,000 workers, and now business leaders are calling on the government to commit to the plans.

Western Sydney leaders are demanding the government reconsider its decision to skip a potential boom suburb along the Sydney Metro west project — earmarked to generate more than 130,000 jobs.
Representatives of The Property Council of Australia (NSW), Urban Development Institute of Australia NSW, Urban Taskforce and the Western Sydney Business Chamber came together to call on the NSW Planning to investigate the inclusion of Camellia as a Metro station location.

The bid for a Camellia stop comes after blueprints for the billion-dollar project were placed on exhibition, revealing 154 homes and businesses would face the wrecking ball for the massive transport link.
Urban Taskforce chief Tom Forrest said all major industry groups and Parramatta Council agree that “the NSW Government has made a big mistake” when bypassing Camellia.
“The government completed the analysis of Metro West before it had committed the funding,” he said. “They didn’t redo their analysis when the funding was committed and now it is not relevant.”
He said the government had a perfect opportunity to redevelop the asbestos-ridden Camellia site, because “the metro will already be tunnelled underneath it.”

Mr Forrest was joined by Property Council of Australia director Ross Grove, UDIA NSW chief Steve Mann and Western Sydney Business Chamber executive David Borger in a submission to the Metro west plan, obtained by NewsLocal.

“The distance between Sydney Olympic Park and Parramatta is approximately seven kilometres,” the representative said .“It is highly unusual for metro rail lines to have such long distances between stations and we believe it would be a significantly missed opportunity to deny the location of an additional metro station west of Sydney Olympic Park at Camellia.”
Analysis commissioned by the Camellia Landholders Alliance revealed a metro station could be delivered with an addition 200 metres of tunnelling, meanwhile research by Value Advisory Partners found the suburb has suffered a 92 per cent drop in employment opportunities.

The submission said a station at Camellia had the potential to kickstart a massive 131,000 jobs alongside a new “mixed-use employment and residential hub” for smart jobs.
Parramatta Mayor Cr Bob Dwyer also pleaded with Premier Gladys Berejiklian to address the “current under-utilisation” of Camellia as part of the Place-based Infrastructure Compact Pilot for the Greater Parramatta and Olympic Peninsula Area. The draft plan proposes to exclude Camellia from a land-use change.
A Transport for NSW spokesman said Metro undertook “comprehensive analysis of including a station at both Rydalmere and Camellia as part of the strategic planning for Sydney Metro West” — blaming flood protection requirements and the impacts associated with the masterplan for the precinct as to why it was scrapped.

“Significant remediation works would have been required which would have impacted construction timing,” he said.
The spokesman said a station at Rydalmere was ruled out given its distance from the proposed railway alignment and the additional time it would add to the journey between Parramatta and the Sydney CBD.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
 

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Perpetual Bohemian
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Calls for Camellia metro station again.
“It is highly unusual for metro rail lines to have such long distances between stations .....”
Here we go, the "it's not a typical metro" whinge again. It's not a metro, it's a rapid transit system that uses metro technology and carries the (nowadays much misused) moniker "Metro". It needs to be shaped by the function it is to perform, not by some doctrinaire definition.

They're getting a tram stop at Camellia, I thought that was to do the same job (assuming they can run the tram above walking pace this time around).
 

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Here we go, the "it's not a typical metro" whinge again. It's not a metro, it's a rapid transit system that uses metro technology and carries the (nowadays much misused) moniker "Metro". It needs to be shaped by the function it is to perform, not by some doctrinaire definition.
It's the doctrine of the 20 minute journey which is the problem.
 

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It's a medium speed suburban rail, just with metro automation features.

A bit like London Crossrail or Montreal REM.

If anything the speed possibly means a broader HSR doesn't need to go into the CBD
 

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I tend to agree. I am very much in favour of the Pyrmont station. It would be nice one in Leichhardt, but I guess it is too late for that.
 

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It's not the terminology that's the issue, it's the fact that the potential stations skipped mean that they're missing out on the potential for massive urban regeneration that could be anchored by convenient mass transit connections. And for what? Some upfront cost savings (which could be significantly offset by value capture) and speeding up the journey by at most 1.5-2 minutes. It's a ludicrous decision.

Another example of the flaws in planning: stage 2 of the Parramatta LR was moved from south of the river to north of the river, precisely to avoid overlapping with the metro. But now there aren't going to be any metro stations between Parramatta and SOP anyway. So what was the point?
 

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It's not the terminology that's the issue, it's the fact that the potential stations skipped mean that they're missing out on the potential for massive urban regeneration that could be anchored by convenient mass transit connections. And for what? Some upfront cost savings (which could be significantly offset by value capture) and speeding up the journey by at most 1.5-2 minutes. It's a ludicrous decision.

Another example of the flaws in planning: stage 2 of the Parramatta LR was moved from south of the river to north of the river, precisely to avoid overlapping with the metro. But now there aren't going to be any metro stations between Parramatta and SOP anyway. So what was the point?
I don't think this is as bad as being made out. Stage 2 of the LR was either or through Rydalmere or Camellia, depending on where the Metro station was put but still designed to run through all the suburbs that are being developed north of the river, suburbs such as Ermington, Melrose Park and Wentworth Point. Suburbs that the Metro could never touch with the exception of Rydalmere which was probably never going to make the chop for the Metro.

However, the LR is probably better for development here as it runs right through the middle of Rydalmere, it could probably form an even bigger catalyst for development then the Metro station on Victoria Rd which was probably more about bus and CBD LR interchange.

The LR through Rydalmere has much better coverage of a much larger industrial area than Camellia, especially now that half of its dedicated to stabling. An area not contaminated or subject to flooding. So you can see the attraction.

if you accept that only one of the industrial areas around the Parra CBD will be heavily developed, then you would pick Rydalmere. That leaves Camellia as the commercial/ industrial part.

The LR also still runs into Olympic Park as well as Parramatta for Metro interchange, however you would have to think that a Camellia Metro station would have worked well for interchange to get to the CBD but that would probably have weakened the case for both LR lines as the temptation would have been for everyone to transfer to the Metro, even for Parra.

People shouldn't get sucked into the single seat/slow DD thought process. We are talking Metro. If they can get the LR performing, it will be decent.
 

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I don't think this is as bad as being made out. Stage 2 of the LR was either or through Rydalmere or Camellia, depending on where the Metro station was put but still designed to run through all the suburbs that are being developed north of the river, suburbs such as Ermington, Melrose Park and Wentworth Point. Suburbs that the Metro could never touch with the exception of Rydalmere which was probably never going to make the chop for the Metro.

However, the LR is probably better for development here as it runs right through the middle of Rydalmere, it could probably form an even bigger catalyst for development then the Metro station on Victoria Rd which was probably more about bus and CBD LR interchange.

The LR through Rydalmere has much better coverage of a much larger industrial area than Camellia, especially now that half of its dedicated to stabling. An area not contaminated or subject to flooding. So you can see the attraction.

if you accept that only one of the industrial areas around the Parra CBD will be heavily developed, then you would pick Rydalmere. That leaves Camellia as the commercial/ industrial part.

The LR also still runs into Olympic Park as well as Parramatta for Metro interchange, however you would have to think that a Camellia Metro station would have worked well for interchange to get to the CBD but that would probably have weakened the case for both LR lines as the temptation would have been for everyone to transfer to the Metro, even for Parra.

People shouldn't get sucked into the single seat/slow DD thought process. We are talking Metro. If they can get the LR performing, it will be decent.
There is still a lot of doubt as to whether stage 2 of parra light rail will ever happen at all
 

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There is still a lot of doubt as to whether stage 2 of parra light rail will ever happen at all
Ever is probably a strong word. I think that there were questions when they were talking about a Metro station at Camellia/Rydalmere but with no station? I think it will happen. The development potential is too strong. When is probably the question.
 
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