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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Further to peterstoba and openlyjane posts in the official Liverpool thread, I went along today to see how the landscaping in getting on.






It looks better in the flesh than by photo and I accept something needed to be done to the walkway to make it more user friendly, but I will be disappointed if trees are not re-planted.

I would think it is at least a few weeks away from being completed and re-opened.
 

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I thought the point of the exercise was to remove barriers to pedestrian movement? it looks much better but on the face of it that looks to me as though they've replaced one obstacle with another.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
This picture from Aug 2012 shows how the trees soften the view of the Police HQ and the John Lewis car park, sadly they have all gone now and although I did not take a pic from this viewpoint it looked ugly.



Picture now taken

 

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I thought the point of the exercise was to remove barriers to pedestrian movement? it looks much better but on the face of it that looks to me as though they've replaced one obstacle with another.
I think the reason given was to improve the visual link between the main thoroughfare and the dock, rather than a physical link, although the new planters do have more gaps in them than the old acoustic wall did, so there is some level of increased permeability.

I think the changes were also designed with safety in mind. When 11,000 people bail out of the arena, a sizeable proportion of which head for the Liverpool ONE bus station/car parks, or onwards into town, that narrow section of pavement along Wapping becomes dangerously overcrowded, resulting in people walking in the gutter, with all the safety issues that raises. Now there is a sufficiently wide walkway separated from the traffic, where before there was an area of badly laid cobbles which people would typically avoid using.
 

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Also, what would happen with more gaps in the wall is that pedestrians would cross The Strand, with the ensuing chaos, at any number of places instead of the designated crossings.
 

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Some Pictures how it looked about a year ago.





 

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I can see the reasoning behind replacing the barriers with planters and getting rid of those old benches, but the place looks poorer for losing the cobbles and trees for a bit of new paving.

Lot of wasted money on this project imo. Especially when you look at the state of most of the roads and pavements elsewhere in the city.
 

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I can see the reasoning behind replacing the barriers with planters and getting rid of those old benches, but the place looks poorer for losing the cobbles and trees for a bit of new paving.

Lot of wasted money on this project imo. Especially when you look at the state of most of the roads and pavements elsewhere in the city.
Have to agree, I understand getting rid of the cobbles though, I know plenty who disliked walking on them, but personally I liked the way it looked. I'm not as overly bothered at that aspect of it though, it's the loss of the trees which is the worst part, you just have to look at the pictures above to see what a difference they make to the place. Hopefully we'll get some planted at some point.
 

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I think the reason given was to improve the visual link between the main thoroughfare and the dock, rather than a physical link, although the new planters do have more gaps in them than the old acoustic wall did, so there is some level of increased permeability.

I think the changes were also designed with safety in mind. When 11,000 people bail out of the arena, a sizeable proportion of which head for the Liverpool ONE bus station/car parks, or onwards into town, that narrow section of pavement along Wapping becomes dangerously overcrowded, resulting in people walking in the gutter, with all the safety issues that raises. Now there is a sufficiently wide walkway separated from the traffic, where before there was an area of badly laid cobbles which people would typically avoid using.

good points, it certainly looks more modern and user friendly

Also, what would happen with more gaps in the wall is that pedestrians would cross The Strand, with the ensuing chaos, at any number of places instead of the designated crossings.
They do anyway, not everyone wants to walk half a mile to a designated crossing and then half a mile back on themselves. If there are loads of pedestrians moving along there then problem is the road, not the pedestrians. We have to get away from marshalling pedestrians out of their way to 'designated' uber-crossings with railings and huge traffic lights, especially in city centres. Long uninterrupted wide stretches of road encourages some motorists to put their foot down, that's the problem. If the waterfront is part of the city centre then that road needs calming, maybe narrowing and lots of continental style crossing points?
 

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They do anyway, not everyone wants to walk half a mile to a designated crossing and then half a mile back on themselves. If there are loads of pedestrians moving along there then problem is the road, not the pedestrians. We have to get away from marshalling pedestrians out of their way to 'designated' uber-crossings with railings and huge traffic lights, especially in city centres. Long uninterrupted wide stretches of road encourages some motorists to put their foot down, that's the problem.
Taking it to the logical conclusion of allowing of pedestrians from crossing anywhere they want is dead people.
 

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Taking it to the logical conclusion of allowing of pedestrians from crossing anywhere they want is dead people.
They're allowed to cross wherever they want, always have done and will do unless the law changes. It's not pedestrians that make city centre roads dangerous, it's speed and lack of attention. Trying to segregate pedestrians with railings and a few large, over fussy crossings just makes it more comfortable for motorists to put their foot down.
 

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I wouldn't be surprised if the originally proposed trees been removed from the scheme. The head of LCC highways maintenance doesn't believe trees belong in the city centre and has done his best to get them removed from any public realm works for several years now.
 

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I wouldn't be surprised if the originally proposed trees been removed from the scheme. The head of LCC highways maintenance doesn't believe trees belong in the city centre and has done his best to get them removed from any public realm works for several years now.
Interesting, but not surprising, to hear that!

The current pointless works on Leeds Street involved chopping mature trees down and getting rid of grass verges and flagstones, seemingly just to put in tarmac pathways and the odd section of tactile pavers.
 

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I wouldn't be surprised if the originally proposed trees been removed from the scheme. The head of LCC highways maintenance doesn't believe trees belong in the city centre and has done his best to get them removed from any public realm works for several years now.
Also the tree maintenance budget has been virtually decimated from what I understand.

Do you know this councillor's name?
 

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I understand their plight in some respects. They are stripping out pretty much all non-statutory expenditure from their budgets. If it's trees vs. social workers, trees lose every time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I understand their plight in some respects. They are stripping out pretty much all non-statutory expenditure from their budgets. If it's trees vs. social workers, trees lose every time.
I'm sure this is the case, so such a shame that a row of mature trees were ripped up for no real reason, this walkway could have been re-paved with the trees surviving. I despair sometimes.
 

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I'm sure this is the case, so such a shame that a row of mature trees were ripped up for no real reason, this walkway could have been re-paved with the trees surviving. I despair sometimes.
Too true! Constsnt grumbling from LCC about budget cuts but they spend money ripping out trees which add so much to the visual aspect..

They need to care more for the existing stock of trees. I walk to my local shops and have to duck to avoid colliding with low hanging branches. Someone will lose an eye and that will cost them much more than pruniing a few trees.
,
 

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I'm sure this is the case, so such a shame that a row of mature trees were ripped up for no real reason, this walkway could have been re-paved with the trees surviving. I despair sometimes.
Agreed, this shows dreadful judgement. I hope the decision makers are named and held to account for their actions.
 

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I've just discovered, in a very round-about way, that it was Joe Anderson, himself, who decreed that no trees are to be re-planted at Salthouse Dock - & against the feeling of the city's 'tree officers'.

I can see a situation developing whereby he sets himself up directly against the newly elected Greens, falsely believing that trees are simply a 'Green' issue - and an issue that he feels is misguided and oblivious to the budgetary constraints he faces. Joe cannot help himself. He is by nature combative.

There is really just one decision maker now - and that is Joe.
 
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