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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Its about time the Howard stopped sucking up to Qantas and let market forces prevail as they like to tell they believe in. This is one of the reasons I never fly qantas OS prefering Singapore and Emraties every everywhere I can. Reason, better planes and much better service than quaintarse has ever had.

http://theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19324038-643,00.html

Qantas 'focus' risking tourism

Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
June 01, 2006

AUSTRALIA'S airports are joining forces to convince the federal Government to overhaul its recently revamped aviation policy, claiming it favours Qantas ahead of passenger and tourism growth.
The airports, spearheaded by Melbourne and Brisbane, claim a harder government line on allowing overseas carriers to fly to Australia is hindering growth and working against the nation's multi-million-dollar push to promote tourism.

"The Government on the one hand has been putting money into promoting the 'Where the bloody hell are you?' advert, which is really successful and doing really well," Melbourne Airport chief executive Chris Barlow said.

"And then airlines come along and say, 'We'd like to fly all these tourists into Australia', and at the moment the Government's got a nasty trend of knocking them back."

The airports are particularly concerned about recent government decisions rejecting Singapore Airlines's request to start services between the US and Australia, and refusing approaches for more flights from Qatar Airways, Vietnam Airlines and a Taiwanese carrier.

While acknowledging the importance of Qantas, the airlines say much of their growth in international travel in recent years has come not from Qantas but from overseas carriers.

But after a period of significant liberalisation, the federal Government completed a nine-month policy review that said increased access to Australia needed to be balanced by increased rights for Australian carriers.

The airports believe an open-skies policy would lead to sustainable international passenger growth into Australia and boost tourism.

Melbourne Airport officials say international capacity growth since 2000 has come wholly from overseas carriers, but this is now endangered by the Government's conservative approach.

"In simple terms, tourism grows when the seats are there and at the moment the seats really aren't there," Mr Barlow said.

He believed Australian officials were asking for too much in return for the increased access.

While he agreed routes needed to be opened up to Australian airlines, Mr Barlow believed Australia was asking for "a pound and half of flesh".

"This is a good strategy but there's a limit to what that pound of flesh can go up to and at the moment they seem to be going over it," he said.

Brisbane Airport chief executive Koen Rooijmans said open skies were in the nation's interest.

"We believe the market is robust enough to sustain such growth," Mr Rooijmans said.

"We appreciate the Government must weigh the costs of such competition against the obvious benefits to the tourism, leisure and investment economies, but at the end of the day open skies is the only way to go if we are to remain globally competitive."

Brisbane Airport is supporting moves by Dubai-based Emirates to boost flights to Australia.

Emirates has told the airport it would quickly double its capacity into Brisbane if it was allowed to do so.

But a spokeswoman for Transport Minister Warren Truss said the Government was unlikely to review its policy again in the near future. "The whole gist of our open skies is that we have as level a playing field as possible - there's got to be equitable balance," she said.

The airport campaign comes as the Singapore Government pushes to link an open-skies agreement to free trade negotiations with Australia.
 

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Exactly. Let's face it, Australia is an isolated country. Here we have airlines knocking on our door asking if they can please create some trade (make it easier for aussies to travel and make it easier for others to come here) and our government stands by and says no.

I will go out of my way to try an avoid flying with QF because of their arrogance. They seem to believe that as long as I am coming or going from Australia then it is their God-given right to be the airline to fly me, without regard to my wallet, conveinence or comfort. If they want my business I would like them to make an effort for it just like the other airlines out there.

QF try extremely hard to make sure things work to benefit them with little regard to their passengers. They will only do something if it makes their life easier. Don't want to transit LAX? Sorry thats too bad because thats where you have to go. Don't want to transit SYD? Sorry but we don't care if you live in Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth or elsewhere because our planes use SYD. If you want to go somewhere you either transit through SYD or you don't go at all. What's that you say? Qatar or Emirates or Singapore want to save you the hassle of SYD and offer you a cheaper airfare for the privilage? Well we'll just go and have a word to Canberra about THAT!
 

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So that's why Qatar airways never came to Melbourne as promised!!

Good one little Johnny. Give the finger to pleas and offers to increase Australia's tourism and economy!

Johnny is losing it. First the IR reforms, now banning airlines to fly to AUstralia. He is getting old, bald and is past his use by date.

Sydney-centric Johhny and his equally Sydney-centric Airline need to pull their heads out of the sand and notice that their are people living outside of Sydney (!) and let these airlines give us direct services across the world.
 

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Tyson said:
Exactly. Let's face it, Australia is an isolated country. Here we have airlines knocking on our door asking if they can please create some trade (make it easier for aussies to travel and make it easier for others to come here) and our government stands by and says no.

I will go out of my way to try an avoid flying with QF because of their arrogance. They seem to believe that as long as I am coming or going from Australia then it is their God-given right to be the airline to fly me, without regard to my wallet, conveinence or comfort. If they want my business I would like them to make an effort for it just like the other airlines out there.

QF try extremely hard to make sure things work to benefit them with little regard to their passengers. They will only do something if it makes their life easier. Don't want to transit LAX? Sorry thats too bad because thats where you have to go. Don't want to transit SYD? Sorry but we don't care if you live in Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth or elsewhere because our planes use SYD. If you want to go somewhere you either transit through SYD or you don't go at all. What's that you say? Qatar or Emirates or Singapore want to save you the hassle of SYD and offer you a cheaper airfare for the privilage? Well we'll just go and have a word to Canberra about THAT!
I dont understand though with your issue of compulsory international flights transfering through Sydney. If you want to fly Emirates, you must transit through Dubai and if you fly Singapore Airlines you must transit through Singapore even if you are travelling just 300km next door to Kuala Lumpur.
 

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Ipggi said:
I dont understand though with your issue of compulsory international flights transfering through Sydney. If you want to fly Emirates, you must transit through Dubai and if you fly Singapore Airlines you must transit through Singapore even if you are travelling just 300km next door to Kuala Lumpur.
^^ Very good point.

I would not personally travel on Emirates after discovering that the airline is run by a team of bigots. Apparently the airline refuses to accept requests for meals that meet Jewish religious requirements. Why? They don't like Jews. (Source)

I am sure if most people knew of Emerates' religious intolerance, they might choose another airline. I for one don't believe this is acceptable (and I am not a Jew).
 

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It's such a big deal flying through Sydney is it?? Boo hoo. The reality is, QF is a Sydney based airline & that is the main city that they hub out of. It shits me now how people jump up & down about the government trying to protect QF. When AN went down & the government didn't step in to help them, we had probably the same people jumping up & down then as well. It looks as though you're damned if you do & damned if you don't.
I dunno, it just looks that way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ipggi said:
I dont understand though with your issue of compulsory international flights transfering through Sydney. If you want to fly Emirates, you must transit through Dubai and if you fly Singapore Airlines you must transit through Singapore even if you are travelling just 300km next door to Kuala Lumpur.
Because Mate when I travel OS from Melbourne the last place I want to WASTE 3 hours is Sydney airport.The flights are long enough let alone being bored shitless in a boring airport just to suit QA.
No doubt Sydney ppl dont understand the frustration of Melbourne passengers have about this but it is a big issue with many passengers thats why the other international carriers have a strong foothold in Melbourne at the expence of QA.
A few years back I was on a delayed flight in BKK that was then diverted via Melbourne instesd of going via Sydney and you should have heard the Sydney passengers whinge.
I had great delight in reminding them that this was the norm for ppl from Melbourne if they fly with our supposed "national" (sic) carrier even though QA is 47% foreign owned!
 

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The Olderfleet said:
^^ Very good point.

I would not personally travel on Emirates after discovering that the airline is run by a team of bigots. Apparently the airline refuses to accept requests for meals that meet Jewish religious requirements. Why? They don't like Jews. (Source)

I am sure if most people knew of Emerates' religious intolerance, they might choose another airline. I for one don't believe this is acceptable (and I am not a Jew).
I don't think it's a big issue, and I doubt it's motivated by racism. Emirates assume Jews largely won't travel on Emirates, so they don't offer a kosher meal. Similarly, El-Al Israeli Airlines don't offer a halal meal because they assume Muslims won't travel with them.
 

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I don't understand this perception that passengers flying QF must transfer through Sydney. Since when? Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Cairns, Darwin, Adelaide, and Perth all have direct QF flights to Singapore (the main QF transfer point in sth east Asia). SYD, MEL, PER and BNE all have direct flights to HKG. SYD, MEL, PER, BNE and CNS all have direct QF flights to TYO. MEL en SYD both have non stop QF flights to LAX. And the list goes on..............
SYD has the most QF international services but to say the rest of Australia is starved of direct intl connections with QF is bollocks.
 

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Wezza said:
It's such a big deal flying through Sydney is it?? Boo hoo. The reality is, QF is a Sydney based airline & that is the main city that they hub out of. It shits me now how people jump up & down about the government trying to protect QF. When AN went down & the government didn't step in to help them, we had probably the same people jumping up & down then as well. It looks as though you're damned if you do & damned if you don't.
I dunno, it just looks that way.
Queensland And Northern Territory Air Service. Funny how its Sydney based
 

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auslankan said:
Its about time the Howard stopped sucking up to Qantas and let market forces prevail as they like to tell they believe in. This is one of the reasons I never fly qantas OS prefering Singapore and Emraties every everywhere I can. Reason, better planes and much better service than quaintarse has ever had.

Market Forces prevail?

Emirates who is Wholly owned by the Government of Dubai. An absolute monarch where petro dollars have been poured in to Emirates from government sources ever since its creation in 1985.

If the Howard government poured as much money in to QANTAS as Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum (ruler of Dubai) did for Emirates I think you would then find better planes and a much better service.

No Australian government will ever turn its back on QANTAS and that's a fact (turning back I mean opening up certain routes without some sort of compensation etc etc). The international arena of airlines is not fair and if they did turn their back on QANTAS there is a distinct possibility that our national carrier (post Government ownership definition) would weaken immediately possibly affecting domestic operations.
 

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KIWIKAAS said:
I don't understand this perception that passengers flying QF must transfer through Sydney. Since when? Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Cairns, Darwin, Adelaide, and Perth all have direct QF flights to Singapore (the main QF transfer point in sth east Asia). SYD, MEL, PER and BNE all have direct flights to HKG. SYD, MEL, PER, BNE and CNS all have direct QF flights to TYO. MEL en SYD both have non stop QF flights to LAX. And the list goes on..............
SYD has the most QF international services but to say the rest of Australia is starved of direct intl connections with QF is bollocks.
BNE also has 5x Weekly non stop flights to LAX.
 

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If QF had its way you would see all their operations go through SYD. I'd say the only reason that they don't is because they would get cleaned up in the PR department by just about everyone, and other airlines that actually do have rights to fly here would be on a goldmine.

Wezza said:
It's such a big deal flying through Sydney is it?? Boo hoo. The reality is, QF is a Sydney based airline & that is the main city that they hub out of. It shits me now how people jump up & down about the government trying to protect QF. When AN went down & the government didn't step in to help them, we had probably the same people jumping up & down then as well. It looks as though you're damned if you do & damned if you don't.
I dunno, it just looks that way.
1) QF attempts to maintain an image that it is NOT a Sydney based airline. "Spirit of Australia" etc. Yet it is of course Sydney-centric. For flights to LAX for example QF flies from SYD something like 3 times a day. Only once a day from Melbourne non stop. And only about 5 times a week from Brisbane.

2) When AN went down it is a pretty accurate statement what you say about the government. The government will consistently make things harder for foreign airlines by stating that its protecting Australian jobs, blah blah but were more than prepared to let an entire airline go down taking 17,000 direct jobs with it and another few thousand indirectly.

Practically everyone in the industry (with exception of some QF staff and some loyal fans) will tell you that the federal government has always favoured Qantas over the other airlines in this country. They didnt called Anderson the "Minister for Qantas" for nothing.

Anyway if Qantas wants to focus on SYD then I don't really care. The thing that bothers me the most is when Qantas endlessly lobby the government about losing Aussie jobs and and how its so detrimental the economy and so such. If you listen to the unions they appear quite unimpressed with Qantas talking such things and not practicing what it preaches.

Qatar Airways wanted to fly from the Doha to Melbourne on a daily basis. The government with Qantas pushing denied them this. I say if a foreign airline wants to try their hand at a route like this why not let them? It's not like QF are there flying the route or anything. Nobody is flying it. It doesn't have anything to do with their home in SYD. Vietnam Airlines are denied rights too. Qantas don't fly to Vietnam either. Same goes for Emirates wanting additional flights to increase presence around Australia. Qantas don't fly to Dubai or anywhere else in the Middle East for that matter. If Qantas isnt interested in the route then why not let someone else try? It can always be adjusted later if it really proving to be negative.

As that article from The Australian shows it isn't just Victorians, Melbourne Airport, or some people on the internet with nothing better to do that think its not a fair system.

The fact is people not living in Sydney consistenly say on newsgroups, forums, magazines, newspapers, etc that QF couldnt care less about them and getting them where they want to go. People WANT to fly SQ and EK. Australia is a huge market for both EK and SQ, I wonder why that is? Based on my research alone out of 4 international cities with direct flights to Melbourne the airlines competing with QF offer more frequencies and more seats than QF does. Only to Auckland is QF able to match it. Emirates offers four flights everyday to Dubai and QF zero.

Melburnian_in_sydney said:
The international arena of airlines is not fair and if they did turn their back on QANTAS there is a distinct possibility that our national carrier (post Government ownership definition) would weaken immediately possibly affecting domestic operations.
Lets not start with the doomsday theories already. According to the annual reports QF's pretax profit amounted to:
* $1.03 Billion for 04/05 year.
* $964.6 Million for 03/04 year.
* $502.3 Million for 02/03 year.
* $631.0 Million for 01/02 year.
* $597.1 Million for 00/01 year.
* $762.8 Million for 99/00 year.

As you can see even during Ansett collapse, SARS, Sep-11, Virgin Blue start up, etc they have havent exactly been losing money.
 

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the fact that interstate travel relies so heavily on air travel is not the fault of the airlines but the fault of successive federal governments who've failed to offer an alternative. Christ I remember one of the first 'VFT' proposals between Melbourne-Canberra-Sydney back in the early 90s, 10-15 years later sweet FA has been done and we're even more reliant on air travel and subsequently we and our economy is even more at the mercy of oil.
 

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Tyson said:
If QF had its way you would see all their operations go through SYD. I'd say the only reason that they don't is because they would get cleaned up in the PR department by just about everyone, and other airlines that actually do have rights to fly here would be on a goldmine.



1) QF attempts to maintain an image that it is NOT a Sydney based airline. "Spirit of Australia" etc. Yet it is of course Sydney-centric. For flights to LAX for example QF flies from SYD something like 3 times a day. Only once a day from Melbourne non stop. And only about 5 times a week from Brisbane.
ROFL how stupid do they think everyone is? It is percieved as Sydny centric as ever! Spirit of AUstralia my dick, more like the Spirit of Sydney. Everyone in the country, except NSW and QLD people (they stand by each other for reasons unknown-just look at Wezza's post) know that all their fucken flights transit thru fucken Sydney.
 

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I'm travelling overseas in about 4 weeks after I sit my Exams. I purposley chose to fly with Emirates avoiding Qantas ' The Spirt of Sydney'. I refuse to be transferred in Sydney that is only an hour away and more east than Melbourne. I am travelling to Europe, why should I travel north-east and then west when I have the option of just leaving from Melbourne to Dubai, then London. It just makes more sense to fly direct.
 

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ryan79 said:
Queensland And Northern Territory Air Service. Funny how its Sydney based
Although you can't really expect it to be based out of Longreach:)
 

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mic said:
I'm travelling overseas in about 4 weeks after I sit my Exams. I purposley chose to fly with Emirates avoiding Qantas ' The Spirt of Sydney'. I refuse to be transferred in Sydney that is only an hour away and more east than Melbourne. I am travelling to Europe, why should I travel north-east and then west when I have the option of just leaving from Melbourne to Dubai, then London. It just makes more sense to fly direct.
You could fly on the QF9 (daily direct to London) or the QF29 (daily direct to London) from Melbourne.

It appears that you guys are so conditioned into believing that Qantas only operates from Sydney that you aren't even aware of the connections from other cities. Btw. The QF flights to London from Melbourne require no plane change enroute with only a short stop in Singapore (QF9) of Hong Kong (QF29). Now you have an extra hour travelling time with Emirates and you must cahnge planes in Dubai.

Get informed.
 

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Perth flies directly to many international destinations without touching Sydney. Not sure about US flights though but I go directly to London via Singapore. The break is welcome as 18 hours straight on a plane in economy is not easy. You can go to almost any Asia or Europe destination directly from Perth (with stop overs in other countries along the way. But I think Qantas is shit unless your business class. They are the worst I have flown on (and thats many) for treating economy people like dirt.
 
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