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I agree. I did find one earlier reference; Pigot of 1834. I know the pub claimed 1734. Could there have been a crossed wire C18 vs 1800s etc ?

As to the area .... drawing a blank, but I just remembered that Dickie Dees office building has a sort of Egyptian look. Wonder if there was some sort of homage to the area ? Photo is not great but is the sort of palm theme

 

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Geordieologist
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I'm happy to go with 1834 as the date for the pub, and as I was less rigorous in my researching back then, will also concede I could possibly have got my seventeens and eighteens mixed up. Especially if I'd already been told - erroneously, as it seems as present - that 1734 was the date. And I was only being a few beers for my troubles.

As you say, the numbers are similar enough to consider this an error.

But as I said earlier in this thread, I've remained interested in how the pub and/or the area got its name, and unfortunately this remains unresolved.
 

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I’ve been to the Tyne & Wear archives today to have a root about, and I still find can’t anything conclusive. Among the maps I looked at, J. Roper’s from 1808 shows an area called ‘New Egpyt’, while on John Wood’s 1827 map it’s known simply as ‘Egypt’. The Directory of Newcastle, by M.A.Richardson, from 1838, lists an “Egypt Cottage, John Bell, New Road”. I think this is the earliest positive dating of the pub so far.

I also looked at the plans for the 1873 rebuild. I was asked for a five-quid fee to use my own camera and photograph it, but I declined this so I’ll describe it instead. There was a horseshoe-shaped building behind it at the time, marked as “Egypt Court”. Part of this was also marked as a “cooperage”. I also found some plans for the conversion of this cooperage dated 1869, and on these the existing horseshoe building to the rear of the pub is called “Egypt Square”. The Egypt Cottage is also marked on these plans.

So, to summarise so far: The 1736 map posted by NH shows neither an inn nor an area called ‘Egpyt’.

The 1802 map shows a cluster of buildings and the area is marked as “Egypt”. These buildings have gone on the 1808 map, but reappear as a different shape on the 1827 map. They are also there on Oliver’s map of 1831, and the area is again marked as ‘Egypt’.

The pub is first listed in a directory from 1838 as the Egypt Cottage – which would stillmake it a contender for Newcastle’s oldest pub, but I think the Duke of Wellington pips it. It’s listed in a directory from 1822, when a Mary Ann Johnson held the license.

The rebuilding plans from 1873 show an Egypt Court/Square behind the pub.

So there’s still no sign of the “Egypt Inn” that Brian Bennison says was certainly there in the early eighteenth century. But more annoyingly, I can’t recall how I verified this, twenty-five years ago. It doesn’t help that the Central Library no longer have any references in their index system to either the pub or the area. But I used to have a ‘Northumbria Room’ ticket back then, so it’s likely I had a good rummage around behind the scenes myself, as Brian would have been able to do. Sadly, you can’t do this any more.

I’ve run out of ideas, and may have to concede that on the evidence in front of me, the pub dates from around 1838. This still doesn’t explain how it or the area got its name, the waters having been muddied by NP’s discovery of a source that disputes Charleton’s claim that it was named after some temporary granaries built in 1796.
Good stuff Al but just to correct the earliest possible reference to a Egypt Cottage pub - as said earlier on in the thread - not until 1834 that I can see it in Pigots

You are not the first person to tell me that the Archives asked for as £5 fee fore the day - what they should be doing is advising folk that if they pay £15 instead they can take photographs of whatever for the whole year - per their web site @ http://www.twmuseums.org.uk/archives/copying/

Self-service photography
You can also take your own digital photographs for personal use, but without using flash or a tripod. We charge £5 for a one-day licence or £15 for a licence to take as many photographs as you want for a whole year. For this you must have a CARN ticket.
 

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I agree. I did find one earlier reference; Pigot of 1834. I know the pub claimed 1734. Could there have been a crossed wire C18 vs 1800s etc ?

As to the area .... drawing a blank, but I just remembered that Dickie Dees office building has a sort of Egyptian look. Wonder if there was some sort of homage to the area ? Photo is not great but is the sort of palm theme


A "front on" picture taken by me ( hosted on Photobucket) - no palm trees in planter boxes gives game away, - not 2011



KEN
 

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Geordieologist
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Good stuff Al but just to correct the earliest possible reference to a Egypt Cottage pub - as said earlier on in the thread - not until 1834 that I can see it in Pigots
Cheers Steve, my fault entirely. NP has also pointed that reference out to me :bash:

In my defence, I wrote that post on my phone, which made it hard to refer back to previous posts.

I agree entirely about your annual payment suggestion. I haven't been in the place for over a year, and was also surprised to be asked if I had a 'card'. You need to show them a driving licence or some other ID and a utility bill in order to get one, just to gain entry to the room. I filled in a form and was given a day pass, which renders this card business rather redundant.
 

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I'm happy to go with 1834 as the date for the pub, and as I was less rigorous in my researching back then, will also concede I could possibly have got my seventeens and eighteens mixed up. Especially if I'd already been told - erroneously, as it seems as present - that 1734 was the date. And I was only being a few beers for my troubles. As you say, the numbers are similar enough to consider this an error.
And as you also said it was the pub that suggested it was 1734 rather than you. It s also not helped with [for example] the Chronic' discussing the fire of 1832 at length and a rebuild; which of course make a much earlier date at least plausible. It may be slightly earlier as there is a gap in the directories between '28 and '32. Also, as WFB points out the maps of the time were famously 'copied' so on the assumption that the buildings were there in 02, '27 [and probably 08] there might have been something going on pre '28. Mind you the Beer Act of 1830 is a nice 'tipping point' and fits well with the chronology. Interestingly wikpedia [so it must be wrong] says:

The beer houses also tended to avoid the traditional public house names like The Crown, The Red Lion, The Royal Oak etc. and, if they did not simply name their place Smith's Beer House, they would apply topical pub names in an effort to reflect the mood of the times.

But as I said earlier in this thread, I've remained interested in how the pub and/or the area got its name, and unfortunately this remains unresolved.
I agree, and it's fascinating to me that til we got into this I had no idea it was called Egypt at all. I guess I d not thought why the Egypt was so called.

Interesting that White of 1827 gives a description of the nice houses etc but doesn't refer to it as Egypt.
 

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^^

"Gibson Town" and "Egypt"

This thread has recently seen some very lengthy discussions on the above two 'related' areas of Newcastle, next door to eachother just north of City Road.


Here are some additional Maps and Views of the two locations (with explanatory narrative) from a source that I had completely overlooked, during the main discussion - the book "Victorian Panorama (A visit to Newcastle in the Reign of Queen Victoria) by Alan Morgan" . . .







 

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Great posting NH. I assume that bldg 8 is the Dobson designed Jubilee School mentioned by Grace. What's bldg 6/17 ? The panorama accords with Charleton's elegant houses with Gardens.
 

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Great posting NH. I assume that bldg 8 is the Dobson designed Jubilee School mentioned by Grace. What's bldg 6/17? The panorama accords with Charleton's elegant houses with Gardens.

8 - Correct, this is the Dobson designed 'Royal Jubilee School', opened in 1810.

6/17 - 17 is 'Egypt', and there is an explanatory narrative in the previous post.

6/17 - 6 actually refers to the "New Road", itself. This was initially laid out in 1776 to connect Milk Market with North Shields, which was then re-aligned to a higher level in circa 1870s when it was also extended through to Pilgrim Street, following the infilling of Pandon Dene. It was re-named "City Road" in 1883, in response to Newcastle being made a City.
 

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Geordieologist
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I've received an enquiry from a researcher working on a BBC documentary about beauty pageants, wanting to know if the 'Miss Newcastle' contests were held at the Mayfair in the 1970s. Can anyone confirm or dismiss this?
 

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I've received an enquiry from a researcher working on a BBC documentary about beauty pageants, wanting to know if the 'Miss Newcastle' contests were held at the Mayfair in the 1970s. Can anyone confirm or dismiss this?
Not sure myself but the fact that Mecca had the franchise for Miss UK and Miss World together with owning The Mayfair in those days could ring true.

However I wonder if Tynemouth Outdoor Swimming Pool would be closer to the mark, for sure Miss Tyne Tees TV 1971 was held there with Super Mac as the compère :eek:hno:

 

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Geordieologist
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Not sure myself but the fact that Mecca had the franchise for Miss UK and Miss World together with owning The Mayfair in those days could ring true.

However I wonder if Tynemouth Outdoor Swimming Pool would be closer to the mark, for sure Miss Tyne Tees TV 1971 was held there with Super Mac as the compère :eek:hno:

Cheers Steve - the researcher suspected it was the Mayfair because of the Mecca connection, but I pointed out to her that the Oxford Galleries was also owned by them.

I'll mention the Tynemouth Outdoor Swimming Pool event. That sounds far more classy - with or without Malcolm. I've already suggested she gets in touch with Tyne Tees, but said I'd also make some enquiries (i.e. on here).
 

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There have been various discussions about Shephards of Gateshead most recently on the Gateshead Developments thread and I have read that they had 10 stores. I have been able to identify the ones in Felling, Dunston, Birtley, Westgate Road/Gloucester Road (briefly mentioned by Graham a while ago), Coatsworth Road and of course the main store in Ellison Street. I also know that they were temporarily housed in Kent House, Church Street (formerly Snowballs) after the Ellison Street store was destroyed by fire. Does anyone have any clues as to where the other stores were situated and does anyone have a picture of the Westgate Road/Gloucester Road store? I'm sure I have seen one but I can't locate it at the moment.
 

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Cheers Steve - the researcher suspected it was the Mayfair because of the Mecca connection, but I pointed out to her that the Oxford Galleries was also owned by them.

I'll mention the Tynemouth Outdoor Swimming Pool event. That sounds far more classy - with or without Malcolm. I've already suggested she gets in touch with Tyne Tees, but said I'd also make some enquiries (i.e. on here).
I can put them in touch with Supermac if needs be. Sadly the guy doing the interviewing at Tynemouth pool died in 2000. Roddy Griffith - the inspiration for Roger Mellie - the man off the telly.
 

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There have been various discussions about Shephards of Gateshead most recently on the Gateshead Developments thread and I have read that they had 10 stores. I have been able to identify the ones in Felling, Dunston, Birtley, Westgate Road/Gloucester Road (briefly mentioned by Graham a while ago), Coatsworth Road and of course the main store in Ellison Street. I also know that they were temporarily housed in Kent House, Church Street (formerly Snowballs) after the Ellison Street store was destroyed by fire. Does anyone have any clues as to where the other stores were situated and does anyone have a picture of the Westgate Road/Gloucester Road store? I'm sure I have seen one but I can't locate it at the moment.
Didn't they have a store in North Shields?
 

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Modern Antiquarian
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Didn't they have a store in North Shields?
Yes, they took over the George Swan shop on the corner of Bedford Street and Russell Street. The Swan brothers had a number of businesses in Shields: Stan ran a sports shop in Nile Street, Tom an electrical goods one, but I think George overstretched himself with his attempt at a department store.
 

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Hide Merchants in City Centre

Does anyone have information or pictures of a skinners yard in the Percy Street or Newgate Street area? It was there in the early 1960s, and had big gates opening onto the footpath. A google of the venerable uk.local.geordie turns up a reference to a hide merchant at 65 Percy Street in 1894, but that was 70 years too early. I'd love to see a picture of the gates, to check my early childhood memory of walking past there with my Mam. Thanks in advance, Biff.
 

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Does anyone have information or pictures of a skinners yard in the Percy Street or Newgate Street area? It was there in the early 1960s, and had big gates opening onto the footpath. A google of the venerable uk.local.geordie turns up a reference to a hide merchant at 65 Percy Street in 1894, but that was 70 years too early. I'd love to see a picture of the gates, to check my early childhood memory of walking past there with my Mam. Thanks in advance, Biff.
Looking at Kelly's Directory for 1965 these may be candidates - shown as Leather Merchants - nothing for Tannery of Skinners:

Mandlen Leather Supply Co Ltd - 112 Newgate Street
William Sage & Sons Ltd - 98 Percy Street
Matthew H Wilson & Son Ltd (Trading as Tannage)- 62-68 Newgate Street

Yes uk.local.gerordie was a great forum but due to the fact it wasn't moderated it just became a spammer and trolls play ground.
 

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Does anyone have information or pictures of a skinners yard in the Percy Street Thanks in advance, Biff.
No photos I'm afraid but I can remember it from the late 50's - early 60's
Left hand side of Percy St. travelling north. The huge gates were, I think, arched in shape.
I seem to recall looking inside and seeing piles of sheep skins.
There is no forgetting the stench. Bit like "the bone yard" (if you can remember that), only a bit more sickly.

Chris
 

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Ian Grey- Geordie Exile
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City Hall

I have a vague recollection of seeing a postcard of the interior of the City Hall, undated, but some time in the first forty years. There were two distinct standout aspects to the photo- the electrolier light fittings hanging from the roof and the central entrance vomitory to the stage. The central stage entrance was boarded over (with the alcove in the crossover passage becoming a recess for the backstage coinbox) and the light fittings were removed when the fluorescent cove lighting was installed.

I wonder if anyone has that shot? I haven't seen it online. (There may well have been some interior shots in the 1927 commemorative opening brochure and the 1928 Organ installation which also had a brochure, both of which used to be in the local studies reference shelves at the old (new) central library).
 
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