[Steve Ellwood]

Fair enough. However, if Gibson town was built "between 1836 and 1848", and it was a beer house in the late 1800's, I wonder if the reason that it's so grand is due to an agreement between the developers of Gibson town and the owners of the beer house.

The site would have been right in the middle of the development, so perhaps a replacement building was designed to fit in with the rest of the area. Both Gibson town and the beer house owner would have benefited from that arrangement.

I suppose it all depends on the remodelling that took place in the 1930's.

 

[Dene]

I suppose it all depends on the remodelling that took place in the 1930's.

Could the "shop next door" that the beer retailer extended into have just been the other occupier of the grand building?

Edited to add:

The 1898 OS map does suggest that the grand building that survives to this day was subdivided:

 

[Steve Ellwood]

Could the "shop next door" that the beer retailer extended into have just been the other occupier of the grand building?

Possibly - was just looking at the 1894 OS map and the footprint of the building was probably what it is today.

The rear view of the building shows that at some stage a lift shaft was added to the building, possibly when it became used by the carpet business?

Courtesy of Google Street View

 

[Dene]

The rear view of the building shows that at some stage a lift shaft was added to the building, possibly when it became used by the carpet business?

I was wondering what that was.

 

[newcastlepubs]

In 1894 William Veitch is the resident Beer Retailer and he and his wife and two children are shown on the 1891 Census as being at 1 Buxton Street.

That's interesting Kellys 1894 has Iasbella Carmichael - beer retailer at 42 Gibson [which is the jn of the corner of of Buxton and Gibson]. 1904 the same building is a Ray Nicholas Singleton - beer retailer. Vietch is still in Buxton st.

If this was one bldg then they'd be all be in the same building and I can t quite make sense of that [unless it was an 19c version of the Gate]. Re looking at the map from 1894 and 8 I wonder if this might be a slightly newer building than it looks. I am not expert in these maps but looking at the wiggly lines within the footprint [to use a non architectural expression] I can t see how you'd subdivide what s there now in that way.

It is there in Dec '45 [I think sans lift tower] with what seems to be a little more of Gibson Town ?

 

[Steve Ellwood]

That's interesting Kellys 1894 has Iasbella Carmichael - beer retailer at 42 Gibson [which is the jn of the corner of of Buxton and Gibson]. 1904 the same building is a Ray Nicholas Singleton - beer retailer. Vietch is still in Buxton st.

If this was one bldg then they'd be all be in the same building and I can t quite make sense of that [unless it was an 19c version of the Gate]. Re looking at the map from 1894 and 8 I wonder if this might be a slightly newer building than it looks. I am not expert in these maps but looking at the wiggly lines within the footprint [to use a non architectural expression] I can t see how you'd subdivide what s there now in that way.

It is there in Dec '45 [I think sans lift tower] with what seems to be a little more of Gibson Town ?

Iasbella Carmichael - beer retailer at 42 Gibson would have been on the opposite side of the road from the now Buxton House - the 1894 Kelly's describes the running order going up from City Road. The entry for Carmichael is after Buxton Street.

 

[Dene]

If this was one bldg then they'd be all be in the same building and I can t quite make sense of that [unless it was an 19c version of the Gate]. Re looking at the map from 1894 and 8 I wonder if this might be a slightly newer building than it looks. I am not expert in these maps but looking at the wiggly lines within the footprint [to use a non architectural expression] I can t see how you'd subdivide what s there now in that way.

You raise some excellent points.

Architecturally, it fits the "between 1836 and 1848" window. Also, the bit I highlighted in green is the same ratio as the building that remains today (1:1.74). Looking at the current Buxton Street façade, it does seem to fit with the 1898 OS map:

Excuse the crude image editing

 

[newcastlepubs]

What seems odd is the 'feature' that seems to zig-zag from east to west. If it s a corridor it s an odd shape and I can t see how you get to it, but it might be that the place became almost an arcade.

I did a bit of a Kellys run at the library, but in a hurry. There is [and taking Steve E's point on the street number I am not sure if this is north or south of Buxton] a 'picturedrome' at the Jn of Buxton and Gibson in the 30s.

However... Kellys 1858 describes the jn of Gibson and Buxton as follows:

Buxton Street
38 Gibson Street
Sword William, Greengrocer,
UNITED METHODIST FREE CHURCH
.. then goes onto 11 Buxton..

So depending on how you read the street numbers [but I assume this is odd numbers to the south] then this might nail it..

 

[Dene]

It certainly is a mystery. Perhaps the subdivisions we see on the OS map are at ground-floor level, and the first floor was one large space (ideal for a church, or later a cinema)?

 

[growly grace]

I stomped all over this site a few months ago and it's how it "sits" in it's space that is interesting. It is church like, but I am almost always wrong.

 

[newcastlepubs]

It certainly is a mystery. Perhaps the subdivisions we see on the OS map are at ground-floor level, and the first floor was one large space (ideal for a church, or later a cinema)?

Could be. I am unsure if the cinema was on the north or south corner. It's two minutes from me...I might just try knocking on the door on Monday. Sometimes works .

The 1854 Kellys does suggest [as does the architecture I think] some sort of chapel. The only thing [and this is probably irrelevant or wrong, or both] is that I ve always thought that the building was concrete - which might effect the mid c19 date.

 

[BigLebowski]

I grew up in High Howdon, Wallsend and remember three similar hills around Wallsend:

Blackberry Hill, across the stream from High Howdon
Battle Hill, between Battle Hill House and the Rising Sun Pit
Powder Monkey, across the railway line and slightly north of the Wills Factory

Does anyone remember them or know what they were? I am guessing they were small spoil heaps, though much smaller than your normal pit heap.

I know where you mean for Battle Hill and Powder Monkey, but never came across Blackberry Hill.....whats in it's place currently?

 

[Microkomputer]

DELETED

 

[Steve Ellwood]

What seems odd is the 'feature' that seems to zig-zag from east to west. If it s a corridor it s an odd shape and I can t see how you get to it, but it might be that the place became almost an arcade.

I did a bit of a Kellys run at the library, but in a hurry. There is [and taking Steve E's point on the street number I am not sure if this is north or south of Buxton] a 'picturedrome' at the Jn of Buxton and Gibson in the 30s.

However... Kellys 1858 describes the jn of Gibson and Buxton as follows:

So depending on how you read the street numbers [but I assume this is odd numbers to the south] then this might nail it..

What you have to take into account is where and when the road/street you are looking at crosses over other roads/streets as Kellys tells you that. In the case of Gibson Street you can work out the odds and evens on the basis that we know which side of the street The Sun is on (the pub that is, not the thing in the sky!)

Good article on the Picturedrome by the Ouseburn Trust @ http://ouseburntrust.org.uk/uploads/Newsletters/Ouseburn_Past_and_Present_2.pdf

 

[Steve Ellwood]

.

Addendum:

Just been reading Brian Bennison's "Heavy Nights - A History of Newcastle's Public Houses - Volume Two - The North and East".

Brian indicates the beer house mentioned above as The Stag's Head, a beer house with a small bar and snug a hundred years ago but altered in 1912 and then extended in 1937 by taking in the shop next door. At the turn of the century the Stag's Head landlord was a well known sculler, William Veitch. When he died in 1908 his wife Ellen took over and ran it until the age of 75 in 1939. The Stag's Head changed hands for £8,000 in 1948 and was acquired by Nimmo's in 1958 and closed in 1965.

1959/1965/1968 sees Blackwood, Morton and Sons Ltd - Carpet Manufacturers in residence with the building renamed to B.M.K. House

Right, rewinding a little on this particular point which may have clouded the situation and was a case of me adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 5.

The Stag's Head Inn wasn't on Buxton Street but was at number 16 Gibson Street.

Found this notice in THE LONDON GAZETTE, 29 SEPTEMBER, 1939 @ http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/34696/pages/6621/page.pdf

Re ELLEN VEITCH, Deceased.

NOTICE is hereby given pursuant to section 27 of the Trustee Act 1925 that Ellen Veitch late of the "Stag's Head Inn 16 Gibson Street in the city
and county of Newcastle-upon-Tyne Widow deceased died on the 11th June 1939 and letters of administration of her estate were granted to John
Thompson Veitch of the Stag's Head Inn aforesaid on the nth day of September 1939 in the Newcastle upon- Tyne District Probate Registry. And all creditors and other persons having any claims or demands against the estate of the said deceased are hereby required to send particulars in writing of their claims or demands to the undersigned the Solicitors for the said administrator on or before the 7th day of December 1939 after which date the assets of the said deceased will be distributed amongst the persons entitled thereto having regard only to the debts, claims and demands of which the said administrator shall then have had notice; and he will not be liable for the assets of the said deceased or any part thereof so distributed to any person or persons of whose claims or demands he shall not then have had notice.—Dated this 28th day of September 1939.

So ignore the Stag's Head Inn link as it leads us no where hno:

 

[growly grace]

For me it's the windows in this building that is interesting. How original are they?

 

[Dene]

Good article on the Picturedrome by the Ouseburn Trust @ http://ouseburntrust.org.uk/uploads/Newsletters/Ouseburn_Past_and_Present_2.pdf

Well spotted. Here's another pic of it, with a view up Gibson Street:

Edit: Note the nice pediments marking the entrances to Victoria Place.

 

[Dene]

It's two minutes from me...I might just try knocking on the door on Monday. Sometimes works .

That would be fantastic!

 

[Steve Ellwood]

Well spotted. Here's another pic of it, with a view up Gibson Street:

Edit: Note the nice pediments marking the entrances to Victoria Place.

Does anyone agree that the Picturedrome (locally known as The Lop) was on the opposite side of Buxton Street to the building at number 1 Buxton Street?

If it is then it was later to be the site of the Ford Car Dealers who name escapes me.

By the way, discussed the building with two colleagues today and they had always thought the building had been a Methodist Chapel.

Hopefully NewcastlePubs can find an answer on Monday :cheers:

 

[newcastlepubs]

Does anyone agree that the Picturedrome (locally known as The Lop) was on the opposite side of Buxton Street to the building at number 1 Buxton Street?

If it is then it was later to be the site of the Ford Car Dealers who name escapes me.

By the way, discussed the building with two colleagues today and they had always thought the building had been a Methodist Chapel.

Hopefully NewcastlePubs can find an answer on Monday :cheers:

Yes has to be, and under the hotel now - based on the direction of the slope and the Kellys references placing the kino at the jn of Gibson and Buxton.

The garage was Strakers. They had 2 premises in Newcastle.The Market street premises were showroom only, the workshops were on Melbourne street. At the time Newcastle was unusual because it had 2 Ford dealers, the usual policy being one [Henleys being the other]. Strakers were the Ford RS [Rallye Sport] dealer.

I ll see what I can find out with a door knock - if it turns out it s concrete I assume that it might raise all sorts of odd questions.