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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Rail Baltica will be completed in several stages -- the Warsaw-Kaunas segment should open in 2010, the Kaunas-Riga segment -- in 2014 and the Riga-Tallinn segment -- in 2016. According to preliminary data, the value of the railway project in each Lithuania and Estonia will make up 2.76 billion litas (0.8 billion euros). It will cost another 3.28 billion litas (0.95 billion euros) and 4.7 billion litas (1.36 billion euros) for Latvia and Poland respectively.

The new railway would enable to travel from Tallinn to Warsaw in six hours, Äripäev writes. :runaway:

Jacques Barrot, vice-president of the European Commission and European Union commissioner for transport, promised his personal assistance to Lithuania in implementing the cross-border railway project Rail Baltica.

Barrot said that as early as in April the Commission should nominate the coordinator for this project who would have to ensure the smooth and timely completion of the project in all the countries, on the territory of which Rail Baltica will stretch. The project for Rail Baltica has been included onto the priority list of the projects financed by the EU.


We want to launch preliminary studies in autumn, said Estonian economy and communications ministry transport adviser Anti Moppel, who is a member of the international working group of the project. “The studies should yield an answer on where the railway should pass through Estonia, which would be the shortest, yet most optimal route taking the developments of the Baltic region into account,” Moppel said.

Moppel said that it must be analysed whether the planned speed of trains would be 160, 200 or even 300 km/h.

If the choice is speed railway in the European sense of the word, then passenger and cargo transport must most likely take place on separate tracks since speeds are different. Cargo transport would be important to Finns too who could use to export goods to South or central Europe.

”Latvian transport minister Ainars Slesers said at the World Bank seminar in Vilnius last week that the Baltic region would benefit more from the new railway if its usage was to be expanded till St Petersburg,” Moppel said. “I think too that including North West Russia and also Finland in the project, initially in the research phase, would be very necessary.”


However, in a letter addressed to the Lithuanian government, Vilnius Mayor Arturas Zuokas requested that special attention be paid to Vilnius when making the plans of the railway, which should satisfy the interests of the state, the public, and the EU.

The mayor of Vilnius has proposed a couple of alternatives for discussion. One could go through Kaunas and Siauliai and have a linking section between Kaunas and Vilnius. The other could run through Alytus, Vilnius, and Panevezys.

According to the original plan, the Rail Baltica, a part of the European railway system, is supposed to be built along the eastern fringe of Kaunas. A terminal for servicing the track will be constructed in Karmelava, about 15 kilometres north of Kaunas. The terminal is expected to cost 1.192 million litas (345 million euros).
 

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This article remonds a bit history - near Liepaja 100 years ago one forester managed to get railway engineer as his buddy and after heavy drinking they agreed that the railway will make a bend along the forester's house. So it was built. Nowadays the line is not in use anyway...
I hope that time will not be lost in discussions among the cities. I hope also that they will build brand new line with European gauge... and I imagine all the hassle with detailed planning, strategical impact assessment, environment impact assessment etc. etc.
- - -
I hope the best for this project. There has been talking about it (always presented as grandiose project) since 1996 at least... would be nice to see real works. Hope this would be much more radical transportation solution that Via Baltica in Latvian area (which is just an improved ordinary road). Hope for something like TGV...
 

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Zuokas's "plan" was more like a PR action I guess, this story is already forgotten. Rail Baltica will go through Kaunas. There will be a high-speed traonin Vilnius-Kaunas though. One thing which I'm dissatisfied with is construction dates. So the whole project will be complete only in 2016. That's hell lot of time. Why does it take so long? The project is already prepared so all they need is to get $ and start construction. Does it take so long to lay the tracks and build or modernize a few stations?
 

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Anybody knows here what exact benefit will/might be for our countries? As we know we, baltic people do not use railwas very frequently, we prefer cars. And talking about freight, just former SU states transport goods through our ports. So... .
 

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^^^
I think one of the main advantages will be better transportation from Baltic countries to Poland. While Germany is easily reachable with planes, Poland is a more difficult case. There is a train but it's very slow. The situation should improve. And of course better communication among 3 Baltic countries. I'm sure if the trip would be short and price would be reasonable people would use it.
 

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Heart of Lithuania
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For Kaunas its huge invesetments, job places, fast and modern transportation to European countries. Not only RailBaltica but ViaBaltica as well as the new main airport will criss-cross Kaunas which will enable to become one of the most important transportation joints in Eastern Europe I think. Plus we will get fast train line to Vilnius (due to Vilnius ambitions to get access to RB ;))
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Land connections with Central Europe are still poor, so Rail Baltica will be great Leap forward. North West Russia, especially St. Petersburg, is also highly interested (yesterday agreement between Siemens and Russian Rail Ways about 60 high speed trains for Russia and upgraded high speed line Moscow-St. Petersburg + possibly St. Petersburg-Helsinki, first train to be completed until December 2007).

I don`t know about Finland so far. Finns use Scandinavian transportation corridor through Sweden, Danish Straits and Denmark to the Western Europe, but also have difficulties with land access to Central Europe.

Helsinki - St.Petersburg - Tallinn high speed line at the moment doesn`t sound very realistic -
no EU priority status,
no funding.

Another problem is - Northeast Poland is thinly populated and major Polish infrastructure projects are weakly linked with Finland-Baltic-Poland corridors.
 

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Janis_LV
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I think the transport of the future is plane and not train. Train nin any case will be more expensive as plane and also slowlier.

Plane is good to connect big centers far from each other, especially if area between these ceneters are sparsely populated.

Train is the best to link big centers that ar not far from each other, especially if area bewtween them is densely populated.

And the bus is the best to provide transport links between small centers and from small centers in sparsely populated areas to biger centers.


As Baltic satates, Finnland and eastern Poland is sparsely populated areas with big centeres far from each other. The best way to link all these areas is by plane. But for example to link Dusseldorf and Cologne and Frankfurt and Mannheim is better by high speed train because these are all millio cities and relatively close to each other.

And inside Baltics bus is the best way to connect smaller cities with capitals.
 

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/\ I can't exactly say that I agree with you Janis. If I have to go to for example Copenhagen (300 km) or Hamburg (400 km) train would surely be my first choise. I think that trains are a lot more comfortable than busses, and I wouldn't dream of flying just to go some 300-400 km. Flying would surely be more expensive, and I wouldn't save much time anyway, getting to and from airports and all.

I think a good modern rail network would be a very good solution in the Baltic countries. It's a very good alternative to driving in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
^
Air links are not enough. We need developed and economy-based land and sea links as well.

Major Finnish transportation Corridors (map) - Nordic Triangle is the most important by far atm.
http://www.mintc.fi/www/sivut/english/facilities/route.htm

The Nordic Triangle connects the capitals of Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark with the rest of Europe. It is Finland's most international route and comprises road, railway, water, and air traffic systems.
 

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Janis_LV
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mlm said:
/\ I can't exactly say that I agree with you Janis. If I have to go to for example Copenhagen (300 km) or Hamburg (400 km) train would surely be my first choise. I think that trains are a lot more comfortable than busses, and I wouldn't dream of flying just to go some 300-400 km. Flying would surely be more expensive, and I wouldn't save much time anyway, getting to and from airports and all.

I think a good modern rail network would be a very good solution in the Baltic countries. It's a very good alternative to driving in my opinion.

From the point of view of persons living in smaller centers of course trains will be always the most comfortable way.

I was talking from the poin of view of people living in bigger centers, who always have airports with links to many destinationsa for flexible price. Even if a fast train for such short routes as Tallinn - Riga - Kaunas will be always more comfortable than plane - problem is that such train, regarding that on these routes won't travel that much passengers, because these cities are not very big and between these cities dodesn't live many poeple, will cost nearly the same what plain adn therefore the best option for budged travellers is bus and the rest can take a plain. Teher is realy no need to build a train links which cosst billions for couple of hundred of passengers driving everyday between Tallinn, Riga and Lithuania.
 

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/\ The "problem" as I see it is that you're not really used to high standard trains. Maybe it's very hard to make people get used to the trains, but if they are it's a huge advantage. On the Danish rail network (which I would call pretty good) there was a total of 185.859.000 passengers in 2003, and it's not like we have tons of "big cities" (okay, about half of them on the Copenhagen lines but it's still a lot). There are trains between for example Århus-Copenhagen every 30 min most of the day, and most trains are pretty much full. Of course us Danes have been used to trains for many years, and it takes a lot of money to build a new network, but I think it's worth it.

I'm not saying that it IS the right solution, of course your politicians have to decide, but I think it is. :)
 

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Janis_LV
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mlm said:
/\ The "problem" as I see it is that you're not really used to high standard trains. Maybe it's very hard to make people get used to the trains, but if they are it's a huge advantage. On the Danish rail network (which I would call pretty good) there was a total of 185.859.000 passengers in 2003, and it's not like we have tons of "big cities" (okay, about half of them on the Copenhagen lines but it's still a lot). There are trains between for example Århus-Copenhagen every 30 min most of the day, and most trains are pretty much full. Of course us Danes have been used to trains for many years, and it takes a lot of money to build a new network, but I think it's worth it.

I'm not saying that it IS the right solution, of course your politicians have to decide, but I think it is. :)
Denmark is very densely poppulated country. Baltics isnt.As I told in densely populated countries trains are best way
 

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always on
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Denmark isnt so densely populated ;) A RAIL link is very different from air link, i would travel by rail, this is very important, rail links are considered the stuff that connects nations... ;)
 

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Janis_LV
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_alonso_ said:
to all guys, who take a dim view of Rail Baltica: do you really think, that the decision to built RB was made without deep investigations, which are, I think, more professional than yours blablabla..?

This decision was political and not rational :)
As by the way many decisions EU makes. EU are using environmental arguments which are stupid, like - planes are using petrol adn are loud - it is bad for environment letds everyweher use trains whcih are silent and go with electri power I think they should instead usu exclusively economic arguments. Will be train more or les expensive in the ceertain situation. than planes.
 

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Yes, Denmark is the most dense country in the region, but I still think trains are a good solution for you too. Just a few numbers to show the density in our countries:

People pr. 1 km2

Denmark 124
Lithuania 55
Latvia 36
Estonia 30
Sweden 20
Finland 15
Norway 12
Iceland 3

And a few others:

Germany 230
France 101
The Netherlands 386
Poland 123
Russia 8

Of course it depends a lot about wheater people live in a few big cities or in a lot smaller ones. There are tons of things to considder when deciding if it's "worth the money", and I'm sure your politicians will make the right choise for your countries. I guess I just like trains. :)
 

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I think using enviromental arguments are very important indeed! Because, when the climate gets worse because of human interference, it will affect the economy in a bad direction in a much bigger way than the cost of a few trainlines...;)

The air over central Europe is already nearly packed to the possible limit with aircrafts.
 

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Rail Baltica nie będzie się musiała kończyć na Warszawie, będzie miała przedłużenie do Wrocławia (mam nadzieję, że przez Łódź) jako kolej w standardzie szybkiej kolei (pierwszej w Polce) czyli ponad 250 km/h wg. PKP.
Obecnie nie ma między Wrocławiem a Warszawą żadnej linii.
 

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Adolf Warski said:
Rail Baltica nie będzie się musiała kończyć na Warszawie, będzie miała przedłużenie do Wrocławia (mam nadzieję, że przez Łódź) jako kolej w standardzie szybkiej kolei (pierwszej w Polce) czyli ponad 250 km/h wg. PKP.
Obecnie nie ma między Wrocławiem a Warszawą żadnej linii.
In english please... :? :dunno: :( :wtf: :|
 
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