[MarkO]

There is so much interest and discussion about the 'Second City Crossing' (2CC), the Phase 3b extensions and ideas for 'fantasy' Metrolink extensions in the long term future, that the Metrolink Construction thread on the main Construction pages seems a bit crowded.

So at this risk of having one too many separate Metrolink threads (please delete this one Bammy/admins if this is the case?) and because after all these are not currently under construction (and possibly unlikely to be for several years) I wondered if it might be wise to have this as a seperate thread on the main page?

It would then leave the existing thread 'Metrolink Construction' thread clear to focus soley on the current 3a build and we can have a good old goss on here about future plans!!

And in order to kick things off, I promised forummers there I would knock on the door of the GMPTE Press Office regarding future maps and how the routes were going to be shown on those.

I've now had some answers back that I'm working up into a full article on Metrolink design issues, but in the meantime lets get this thread rolling with something the Press Office have kindly supplied to me, and I think it may be that this is it's first public outing in this exact form?!

While it doesn't show 2CC stop names or any individual service routings, it does appear to me, correct me if I'm wrong, to show the "full extent" of what is currently being looked at - aside from tram-trains or so-called "Phase 4" (long long term fantasy ideas).

So enjoy and welcome to a new and hopefully fun thread.


Mark

 

[dd528]

Nice one Mark! Thanks for going out of your way. It's quite something seeing the map like that. Looks a little bit more like a network for a major 21st century European city!

Was walking past the embankments near the site for the East Didsbury stop just a couple of days ago and it sent a little shiver down my spine thinking about how much better the tram is going to be in a few years time.

 

[Sweet Talk]

Details here: http://www.gmita.gov.uk/downloads/file/2777/item_9a_metrolink_second_city_crossing

 

[tucbiscuit]

thanks to MarkO for the time and effort in getting that map and doing this thread

 

[Frodz]

Interesting, I see the Trafford Centre line is included, they really are pushing that one. Wonder if there'll be any movement on it any time soon.

Thanks MarkO

 

[macc]

Cheers MarkO. I'm Re-posting this in here. Any thoughts?

Aye. Plus a full on interchange like the one that appears to be planned for the area around the current G-MEX stop would never get the go-ahead in SPQ. I also don't think introducing street running to even a small section of a major one-way thoroughfare such as Princess street would be very wise - the implications for traficflow would be difficult to manage.

ah the GMEX stop, that's the interchange I meant. Not Deansgate.

Would these changes to cross-city car travel make Princess Street less of an issue? Princess street itself is going to see some major changes.

If buses are to be ditched from Mosley street altogether, the current road that runs between the Metro stop and the Library will be redundant. What if this road could be used to make the Platform on the library double sided, so you'd have 3 platforms?

The current plaforms are then used for trams leaving the city. One for 1 CC and the other for 2CC. The lines will then converge before GMEX.

The new platform is for incomming trams. As they are coming in from the viaducts they could do better at holding the higher capacity. Some will turn off down Princess Street, others with continue down Mosley street, though the latter would need to cross the track of the outbound 2CC line so would need signalling.

Like this:
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=3426769

Is the road wide enough for 3 lines next to the Peace gardens? I'm not sure but the area's getting redeveloped and they're shit anyway.

So is 30/45 TPH each way or all together?

There may be a bit of congestion at times but my point is it may be better to put up with a little rush hour tram congestion (how bad can it really be?) for the benefits of retaining the full capacity through SPQ. Plus it's cheaper.

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes its interesting that the trafford line appears but the Airport loop and Stockport extensions dont. Up until now the Stockport has been regularly appearing and the Trafford hasnt for a while, does this reflect that behind the scenes some funding may have moved closer while other moved further away?

The map in Link /3 (of the radial rather than bus shelter type) published a couple of months ago (but only in ltd quantity and upon request, not printed for mass distribution yet apparantly) also has changed from 'subject to approval' to 'funded' though it didnt include Trafford.

 

[WatcherZero]

Macc, I dont think their being ditched altogether on moseley street but their is a strategy of reducing them along that road and also a stategy of building several smaller bus terminus locations at more spread out interchange locations (with temporary facilities for drivers resting or waiting to start a new route constructed) rather than a few big ones, the only specific new location mentioned ive seen so far is the Deansgate/Gmex interchange.

The whole point of 2cc is the number of trams along that route reaching capacity and without being an interchange routing all trams through that location and making three platforms is unnecesary. The viaduct is being three tracked to the junction with the library and another platform is being added to Gmex, Is there a reason that you need them all to go through St Peters? the Town hall stop would only be on the other side of the Town hall, a 2 minute walk at worst but at the same time it offers the oppurtunity for new service in the Exchange area.

 

[Gdogg371]

Yes its interesting that the trafford line appears but the Airport loop and Stockport extensions dont. Up until now the Stockport has been regularly appearing and the Trafford hasnt for a while, does this reflect that behind the scenes some funding may have moved closer while other moved further away?

The map in Link /3 (of the radial rather than bus shelter type) published a couple of months ago (but only in ltd quantity and upon request, not printed for mass distribution yet apparantly) also has changed from 'subject to approval' to 'funded' though it didnt include Trafford.

what is it that has changed from 'subject to approval' to 'funded'?

 

[WatcherZero]

All of 3B

 

[Gdogg371]

All of 3B

but still not the trafford centre line?

 

[WatcherZero]

Trafford and stockport lines have always been 'extra' to 3B, in the same way Media City is extra to 3A. The airport loop is really the only bit of 3B thats been dropped, I think its back at an 'aspirational' level.

 

[Seasonedbest]

Going somewhat off topic yet remaining within the bounds of this thread, I was thinking yesterday about what , when all expansions are complete, what the system needed to do to make it truly great? And I thought a 24HR Service. What are the possibilities of this on a light rail network, is it feasible and do other cities in Europe do it? Is there a demand for it?

 

[WatcherZero]

Personally I would like to see Rail running till 2-2:30am though even the London underground only runs till 30 minutes past midnight at the moment. GMPTE have in their requirement I believe that all (rail and light rail) lines must provide a service between at least 5:30am and 11pm on weekdays, trams seem to run as normal till just after 11 then theirs a reduced routes last tram type service till about midnight.

For Comparison Paris Metro runs till 1:20am and trams till 11:40pm, Madrid Metro runs 6am-1:30am on all days including holidays. German railways seem to only have a gap of 12:30am-4:30am, Zurich seems to be 12:30-5:30.

So I guess we could run ours a bit later, Zurich seems to have hit on the nice idea of having a late night surcharge of about £2.80 to make services economical, simply after a certain time you buy your normal ticket plus a second 'night owl' ticket.

 

[MarkO]

GREAT idea Seasonedbest! How cool would that be! The UK's first 24 rail service! Love it! Not so sure what the staff would think though!
(And cheers to the peeps above who thought this thread was a good idea)


M

 

[NathanCaldecott]

Going somewhat off topic yet remaining within the bounds of this thread, I was thinking yesterday about what , when all expansions are complete, what the system needed to do to make it truly great? And I thought a 24HR Service. What are the possibilities of this on a light rail network, is it feasible and do other cities in Europe do it? Is there a demand for it?

I imagine the service would have to be greatly reduced between the 12-5, or is this just stating the obvious?

 

[Seasonedbest]

I imagine the service would have to be greatly reduced between the 12-5, or is this just stating the obvious?

No no, obviously thats what i meant. I know its rare on subways and heavy rail around the world, let alone light rail, but it would be amazing I agree. Minus the louts, it would open up the city to a twenty-four hour access.

NY feels completely different for its night-time access, the PATH train being especially useful when travelling to Newark, or likewise, the subway to JFK.

Manchester is a much smaller city obviously, but these benefits such as access to and from the airport, however many stops to the city centre, would make it great.

 

[Motortownman]

Personally I would like to see Rail running till 2-2:30am though even the London underground only runs till 30 minutes past midnight at the moment. GMPTE have in their requirement I believe that all (rail and light rail) lines must provide a service between at least 5:30am and 11pm on weekdays, trams seem to run as normal till just after 11 then theirs a reduced routes last tram type service till about midnight.

For Comparison Paris Metro runs till 1:20am and trams till 11:40pm, Madrid Metro runs 6am-1:30am on all days including holidays. German railways seem to only have a gap of 12:30am-4:30am, Zurich seems to be 12:30-5:30.

So I guess we could run ours a bit later, Zurich seems to have hit on the nice idea of having a late night surcharge of about £2.80 to make services economical, simply after a certain time you buy your normal ticket plus a second 'night owl' ticket.

Hehe, good idea, but it would never, ever work in Manchester. There are a great deal and not a minority who don't seem to want to buy a ticket to travel during daytimes!!lol

 

[Motortownman]

xx

 

[Motortownman]

Also notice that Wharfside on the trafford Centre has disappeared, although don't know how true this is but thought I heard somewhere that the route from Pamona to MUFC had also changed? Anyone know how true this is.