Old Dock vs. Customs House? Old Dock.Tony Sebo said:I don't mean to niggle you about this point John, as I actually think we should not (in the main) fill in any more docks myself, but tell me, Who filled in the old dock in the first place. How could you restore this and the Customs house as they where on the same site?
You are right. The people who built the city were not morons like the current bunch. However the situation is different today. There is no dynamic altering of the docks anymore, well most south of Canada Dock anyway.Dock filling, replacing and expanding has always gone on in Liverpool, as has demolition, street widening and disregard of 'heritage'.. mainly by those who built a world beating metropolis.. hardly the morons you constantly label anyone proposing similar today!
The choice appear obliteration for no good reason except to built uninspired tat.So, if the principle is OK to replace if it is leading to significant expansion (as it was when our victorian forbears did it) is it OK for us to do it now?
A glass floor?I have my idea for how you could have an excevated old dock AND the customs house though.
Couldn't agree more, Jux. Have you seen some of the faux Georgian shite in Parly? Blabs was talking about even more domesticated 'Georgian' rubbish in Russsell Street in another thread. IMO 'Georgian' rebuilds should only be done in areas that previously laid claim to such architecture and then only as infills or as replacement for post-war mistakes. The same applies to interpretations on 'Victorian' architecture. There are two recent examples of attempts at a Victorian town house turned into luxury flats along Ullett Road. Failures because the architect was determined to express his/her own 'individuality' and this has resulted in the worst form of pastiche with a 'modern' touch. On the other hand in Hargreaves Road off Lark Lane, they have completley rebuilt an Edwardian townhouse without any modern twists. If you hadn't seen it with the roof caved in, almost falling down, you might assume that it was the original building nicely renovated rather than rebuilt!JUXTAPOL said:Georgian looks shite, when interpreted with modern materials, it just fails miserably. It should only be done in an existing Georgian area to fill a gap, and should use the same materials externally, and conform to the proportions of the existing buildings. Internally it should be modern though, considering the modern interiors and designs that exist in recent renovations.
I know the buildings you mean on Hargreaves road, the proper way to do it, where as the badly faked villa on Ullet Rd, and the lego impersonation of a victorian villa built down the road on Livingston Road uke:Liverpool8 said:Couldn't agree more, Jux. Have you seen some of the faux Georgian shite in Parly? Blabs was talking about even more domesticated 'Georgian' rubbish in Russsell Street in another thread. IMO 'Georgian' rebuilds should only be done in areas that previously laid claim to such architecture and then only as infills or as replacement for post-war mistakes. The same applies to interpretations on 'Victorian' architecture. There are two recent examples of attempts at a Victorian town house turned into luxury flats along Ullett Road. Failures because the architect was determined to express his/her own 'individuality' and this has resulted in the worst form of pastiche with a 'modern' touch. On the other hand in Hargreaves Road off Lark Lane, they have completley rebuilt an Edwardian townhouse without any modern twists. If you hadn't seen it with the roof caved in, almost falling down, you might assume that it was the original building nicely renovated rather than rebuilt!
Quite fancy the seamans mission for that site! Has a poetic justice to it.Originally posted by Tony Sebo On the site where the police headquarters is.
Sounds logical but hell would freeze over before you got Grassendale and Cressington Esplanades to agree to that proposal!An ovie would be better continuing along the river to the airport rather than cutting into the old Dingle terminus...
Any overhead railway would stop at the Herc Dock and then join the existing rail line at the tunnel and also continue to Dingle as it was ye olden dayes, or cross tye Dock Road earlier around Brunswick stn to reduce costs. Then at Brunswick it would be a true Y junction, off to Central or to the Pier HeadLiverpool8 said:Quite fancy the seamans mission for that site! Has a poetic justice to it.
Sounds logical but hell would freeze over before you got Grassendale and Cressington Esplanades to agree to that proposal!
jets9 said:You'd be hard pressed to think of another world forum where a similar debate could take place(in all the context debated here)....Liverpool is truly an amazing place and it's only the underlying belief and confidence that could contemplate building a replica of the Customs House...(For fux sake!!).
So many mistakes and the biggest one is the most recent, failing to see the fantastic potential to restore the Old Dock(actually floated by none other than the Walton Group). However for outrageous vandalism you can't beat the destruction of the Cotton Exchange facade in Old Hall Street. I also think the destruction of one side of Abercrombie Square and a very fine portico Georgian Church to build the very 60's and rather ugly senate house, also takes some beating.
I vote Abercrombie Square as an ideal candidate for full restoration.
Dello said:I think there is a case for combining the past and the future. The Reichstag comes to mind. With Modern glass and steel materials, The Custom House could have been a potent and appropriate symbol of Liverpool's blitz.
Tony Sebo said:it would be good to produce a book.. more measured than the usual ones we get here.
Surely that would not be beyond us all on this forum to research and pull together. I have a beautiful book on Lost New York, big, thick, lots of writing, comprehensive.. goes into the wider context of the development of the city, ideologies in planning eras etc... brilliant. We have nothing like it in Liverpool.
Maybe we could provide it?
Dello said:I have loads of photos that I have researched. A great idea. The best two books I have seen are Liverpool City of Architecture - Quentin Hughes, not descriptive enough and stops around 1967 and Our City, Our Heritage - Not pictorial enough and not enough structure.