[Aokromes]

Google translate:

The project of the new bridge is estimated more expensive than the Crimean

The possible next megastructure of the Russian Federation, the bridge to Sakhalin, in terms of per kilometer, is 3.5 times more expensive than the recently opened Crimean. In general, taking into account railway approaches, Russian Railways estimates the project at 540.3 billion rubles. plus more than 90 billion rubles. on the modernization of roads on Sakhalin. The bridge is being discussed in conjunction with the project of the deep-sea coal terminal in Ilyinsky, for which another 100 billion rubles are needed. But experts and market participants doubt the meaningfulness of the project without continuing to Japan.

"Kommersant" managed to get acquainted with the details of the Sakhalin railway transition project. As follows from the materials of Russian Railways, following the results of actualization in 2017 of a feasibility study from 2013, the route from Selikhin station on the Komsomolsk-on-Amur-Vanino line to the narrowest point of the Tatar Strait (Nevelsky Strait) and then to Nysh Station on Sakhalin is recognized as the optimal. The total length, including the 6-kilometer bridge, is 585 km. The price without VAT is 540.3 billion rubles, of which the bridge is 252.8 billion rubles. In addition, OJSC RZD needs to invest 92.1 billion rubles. in the railways of Sakhalin. Design work will take three years (2018-2020), construction - five years (2019-2023). In JSC Russian Railways, "Kommersant" clarified that the parameters are "preliminary", and the project "is under construction".

More: https://translate.google.com/transl...ps://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3629466&edit-text=

 

[masala]

It could only make sense if brige to Japan is built

 

[Aokromes]

^^ Yeah it's a thing i have think for long.

 

[k%]

I like all megaprojects, hope it gets build, whole world needs more infrastructure :cheers:

 

[Aokromes]

^^2nd Atlantic-Pacific railway, from Lisbon to Tokyo XD

 

[kolumbus]

What about bridge to Yakutsk? What is more probable to be build, this bridge or Yakutsk bridge?

 

[Anticalaca]

I can't think in a Sakhalin-Japan bridge, because Japan doesn't even consider Sakhalin as a part of Russia. For them, is charted as "no one territory". Incredible.

 

[Antioch]

I can't think in a Sakhalin-Japan bridge, because Japan doesn't even consider Sakhalin as a part of Russia. For them, is charted as "no one territory". Incredible.

I don't think that's true. Japanese maps show Sakhalin as part of Russia and Japan does not question that. The Russian annexation of Sakhalin and Kuril islands was clearly stated in the Potsdam Declaration, which Japan unconditionally accepted.

Japan still disputes the Russian possession of the three southernmost islands of what Russia calls Kuril islands, largely due to ambiguity on the actual extent of the Kuril achipelago. IIRC Japan apparently did not consider those islands to be part of Kuril islands.

 

[Anticalaca]

I don't think that's true. Japanese maps show Sakhalin as part of Russia and Japan does not question that. The Russian annexation of Sakhalin and Kuril islands was clearly stated in the Potsdam Declaration, which Japan unconditionally accepted.

Japan still disputes the Russian possession of the three southernmost islands of what Russia calls Kuril islands, largely due to ambiguity on the actual extent of the Kuril achipelago. IIRC Japan apparently did not consider those islands to be part of Kuril islands.

You could be right. My source is Wikipedia. so... it's not a strong one.

"Japan renounced its claims of sovereignty over southern Sakhalin in the Treaty of San Francisco (1952), having already abolished Karafuto Prefecture as a legal entity on June 1, 1949. However, that treaty did not explicitly approve Russian sovereignty over southern Sakhalin. From Japan's official position, Sakhalin's attribution has not yet been determined, and it is marked as No Man's Land on Japanese maps. Nevertheless, Japan currently has a Consulate-General in Sakhalin's capital city."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakhalin_Oblast

 

[Dober_86]

Prospective location of the bridge, from Sakhalin island, the mainland in the background.

Source.

 

[Antioch]

You could be right. My source is Wikipedia. so... it's not a strong one.

"Japan renounced its claims of sovereignty over southern Sakhalin in the Treaty of San Francisco (1952), having already abolished Karafuto Prefecture as a legal entity on June 1, 1949. However, that treaty did not explicitly approve Russian sovereignty over southern Sakhalin. From Japan's official position, Sakhalin's attribution has not yet been determined, and it is marked as No Man's Land on Japanese maps. Nevertheless, Japan currently has a Consulate-General in Sakhalin's capital city."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakhalin_Oblast

The fact that Russia and Japan still haven't signed a formal peace treaty certainly doesn't help.

 

[Heusdens]

I don't think that's true. Japanese maps show Sakhalin as part of Russia and Japan does not question that. The Russian annexation of Sakhalin and Kuril islands was clearly stated in the Potsdam Declaration, which Japan unconditionally accepted.

Japan still disputes the Russian possession of the three southernmost islands of what Russia calls Kuril islands, largely due to ambiguity on the actual extent of the Kuril achipelago. IIRC Japan apparently did not consider those islands to be part of Kuril islands.

Russia and Japan should terminate the dispute with a compromis IMHO: make all the kuril islands (including the islands claimed by Japan) a nature reservate without any country claiming it, and no permanent inhabitation or activity with the exception of small scale ecotourism accomodations...

This should be part of a peace treaty, including a settlement about Sakhalin, and a combined project to built a railway tunnel or bridge from Sakhalin to Hokaido.

 

[Heusdens]

Google translate:



More: https://translate.google.com/transl...ps://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3629466&edit-text=

I wonder what the tidal stream velocity would be at the narrow strait and if it would be viable to build tidal power plant as part of the bridge project, Turbines could be placed at the pilars of the bridge.

A tidal barrage or dam could also be an alternative. But the strait needs to remain open for shipping lanes, with at least some minimum width. I guess 1 - 2 km would be wide enough so some 4-5 km could be a tidal barrage. Bridge should be where the strait is deepest.

 

[Mistogun]

Russia and Japan should terminate the dispute with a compromis IMHO: make all the kuril islands (including the islands claimed by Japan) a nature reservate without any country claiming it, and no permanent inhabitation or activity with the exception of small scale ecotourism accomodations...

This should be part of a peace treaty, including a settlement about Sakhalin, and a combined project to built a railway tunnel or bridge from Sakhalin to Hokaido.

There are 20 000 people living there, what are you going to do with them?

 

[Heusdens]

There are 20 000 people living there, what are you going to do with them?

Didn't know that, thought it was not inhabited except some small number of people (a mere hundred) .... I see now that some of these islands have some smaller sized communities and villages. What activity keeps people alive there, only fishing?

Either they should be able to stay (only prohibiting newcomers to live there) or they could be resettled somewhere else.

But I am not suggesting that anyone living there would be forced to leave, just suggesting that a peace deal with Japan could be to treat the islands as a protected nature habitat (protected against any large scale industrial activity and no military activity) and that these islands (or some of them) could be used for eco tourism and open to Japanese visitors (without requiring visa and so).

 

[Aokromes]

Russian President Vladimir Putin has instructed the government to work out a plan to construct a bridge connecting Sakhalin Island in the country’s Far East with mainland Russia.

“The question of building a bridge between Sakhalin and the mainland has long been discussed, for decades. It has long been a dream of the people living on the island,” Putin said at a meeting with Sakhalin Governor Oleg Kozhemyako on Tuesday. Putin said he instructed the Russian government to work on the feasibility of the project.

The Russian president noted that this would make life easier for people: “You can come, leave at any time of the year, in any weather.” Sakhalin is the only remaining region in Russia without a land connection to the mainland. Crimea was recently connected when Europe’s longest bridge was built in May.

Building a bridge to Sakhalin will be much more difficult and expensive, since the bridge will be 580km long with railroad links and other infrastructure. The project will require building three main and more than 10 additional spans, and will cost several billion dollars.

The population of the island has dropped by more than 30 percent to just shy of 500,000 people in the last 25 years due to the remoteness of the region and lack of a proper connection with mainland Russia.

In an even more ambitious project, Russia earlier proposed building a bridge connecting Japan’s Hokkaido to the south of Sakhalin Island. The two bridges would make Japan a continental state.

From: https://www.rt.com/business/434112-putin-orders-construction-sakhalin-bridge/

 

[Dober_86]

Sakhalin is the only remaining region in Russia without a land connection to the mainland.

That's bollocks. Kamchatka and Chukotka has no land connection to the rest of Russia and the world as well, Magadan Oblast has only "zimnik" connecting it to Yakutia, As a matter of fact these three regions can be reached by air\sea only. Magadan Oblast has appoximated the point where the road connection is permanent throughout a year, but nothing like this can be said of Kamchatka and Chukotka. So, Sakhalin is not "the only remaining region" as the arcticle claims.

 

[xalexey]

Engineers for geodetic work came to the place of the supposed bridge.

 

[Dober_86]

Didn't know that, thought it was not inhabited except some small number of people (a mere hundred) .... I see now that some of these islands have some smaller sized communities and villages. What activity keeps people alive there, only fishing?

Either they should be able to stay (only prohibiting newcomers to live there) or they could be resettled somewhere else.

What activity keeps people alive there, only fishing?

Yep, fishing, the military and social\service sectors they entail.

Either they should be able to stay (only prohibiting newcomers to live there) or they could be resettled somewhere else.

They would no be resettled somewhere else, on the contrary, fishery is on the go, active construction and infrustructure work as well. This article sums up civil cosntruction sector of the South Kurils (Kunasnir and Shikotan Islands), and states that 77 objests have been commissioned over the last three years, including apartment blocks, new kindergartens, a school, 18 sports facilities, roadworks etc.

Shikotan hospital

Sports center in a Shikotan village

New kindergarten in Yuzhno-Kurilsk

Another sports center

Kunashir culture palace

Besides, a brand new settlement is under counstruction, it will comprise 8 apartment blocks.

Krabozavodskoye on Shikotan, a new fish processing plant ans social facilities for its workers are being built

Last but not the least, fiber optic line 850 km long is being currently laid by Rostelekom from Sakhalin to the South Kurils, so the notorious digital divide of all three inhabited islands here will soon be over!

Sorry for a little offtopic, but the islands popped up in the conversation without me anyway) Besides... the thread won't be having a lot of photos anytime soon because there're none yet concerning the subject matter of the topic.

 

[Aokromes]

Russia to Examine Sakhalin-Hokkaido Bridge Investment Volumes – Trutnev

VLADIVOSTOK (Russia) (Sputnik) – Russia is going to prove cost-effectiveness of construction of a bridge between the Russian island of Sakhalin and the Japanese island of Hokkaido, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yury Trutnev told reporters on Thursday adding that the work on the issue would be difficult.

“Now we have different assessments of the cargo base. We will try to equalize the evaluations. It is difficult to forecast cost recovery of a big investment project. A difficult process is underway,” Trutnev said on the sidelines of the Eastern Economic Forum (EEF).

The official pointed out that he did not share the opinion that the construction of the bridge would not recover the costs.

Trutnev also noted that the recent Russian initiative on the peace agreement with Japan was based on the will to develop good neighborhood relations, not on economic calculations.
“The peace creates the foundation in relations … That is not a matter of exchange … We are not assessing the economic effect here,” the deputy prime minister added.

On Wednesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin proposed signing a peace treaty between Russia and Japan by the end of the year without any preconditions.

Mas: https://sputniknews.com/russia/2018...-sakhalin-hokkaido-bridge-cost-effectiveness/