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San Diego Development News IV

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If you're like me, you've probably been wondering just "who" is moving into downtown these days. From today's SD Union-Tribune -



Not A Who's Who, But A Who's There

By Jeanette Steele
STAFF WRITER

April 12, 2006

Ever wonder who is buying all those downtown condos going up at an amazing pace? A recent survey by a downtown developers group offers some hints.

It's not all empty-nesters and young hipsters, to the surprise of those who commissioned the survey.

Results of the February telephone survey suggest one-fourth of downtown residents – both renters and homeowners – are 35 to 49 and another quarter are 50 to 64. The rest are the youngsters (18 percent are 18 to 34) and seniors (31 percent are older than 65).

About one in 10 downtown residents has children living with them, which could pose problems for a neighborhood that has few elementary and middle schools.

They are apparently an educated bunch, as two-thirds hold college or post graduate degrees, the survey found. And even though they live in a major job center, one-third of downtown residents still drive to work, according to the survey, conducted by a Washington, D.C.-based firm.

Much more than half are white, and about half reported a family income topping $50,000 a year.

The survey was commissioned by the Downtown Residential Marketing Alliance, a group of 18 builders, shopping center giant Westfield Corp. and the Centre City Development Corp., the city's downtown redevelopment arm.

The redevelopment board paid $20,000 of the survey's $45,000 cost.

“Our board was interested in knowing who is buying downtown and why, is there still a market for the housing and where is it,” Vice President Donna Alm said. “If we are out there encouraging and facilitating housing development that doesn't have the ability to be sold, I think we are doing a disservice.”

About 300 people who live downtown responded to the survey. Another 500 who live throughout the county were asked about their views of downtown.

About one-third of the non-downtown residents said they might consider moving to the urban neighborhood.

To apply that ratio to San Diego County's population of 3 million – and marketers employed by the developers say it is statistically acceptable to do so – about 1 million people might view downtown as an attractive place to live.

At a time when San Diego's housing market is cooling, that's seemingly good news for developers.

The developers who commissioned the survey said they are also encouraged by the answers they got to the real estate “bubble” question: Of the people surveyed, 36 percent said they think downtown condo prices will appreciate and 35 percent believe prices won't rise, but won't drop, either.

Still, there are indications downtown could be a soft spot in the region's real estate picture.

About 600 previously owned condos are for sale downtown, roughly double the number this time last year. About 2,000 new units are being marketed in completed or upcoming projects. And sales data suggests that property values have stalled overall.

Christopher Wahl, a consultant for the developer alliance, said the slowdown has a silver lining because it means the market's pace is sustainable and isn't being driven by real estate speculators.

“It gives people that otherwise wouldn't have an opportunity to live down here, the opportunity,” he said.

***Who lives in downtown's condos?***

Age range:

65 and older: 31 percent
50 to 64: 25 percent
35 to 49: 25 percent
18 to 34: 18 percent

Marital status:
Single: 39 percent
Married: 29 percent
Separated/divorced: 16 percent

Children:
None: 51 percent
Children, but not living in the home: 36 percent
Children living in the home: 10 percent

Family annual income:
$50,000 to $200,000: 43 percent
Less than $50,000: 33 percent

Race:
White: 80 percent
Black: 4 percent
Hispanic: 4 percent
Asian: 1 percent
American Indian: 1 percent

Education:
College degree: 37 percent
High school graduate/some college/other schooling: 34 percent
Postgraduate school: 30 percent

Work status:
Employed full time: 53 percent
Retired: 32 percent
Employed part time: 4 percent
Student: 2 percent
Homemaker: 2 percent

Commute to work:
Drive: 34 percent
Work at home or homemaker: 34 percent
Walk: 15 percent
Bus: 3 percent

(Note: Percentages do not add up to 100 because not all categories are listed.)
Source: Downtown Residential Marketing Alliance survey
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sd_urban said:
Christopher Wahl, a consultant for the developer alliance, said the slowdown has a silver lining because it means the market's pace is sustainable and isn't being driven by real estate speculators.

“It gives people that otherwise wouldn't have an opportunity to live down here, the opportunity,” he said.
If there's one good thing about a down market it's that it turns to a buyers market and those who previously couldn't buy into downtown would eventually be able to. Condos would still sell out and developers would still build (though at a slower rate). It will bring a whole new demographic into DT: young, non-white and not filthy rich.

***Who lives in downtown's condos?***


Children:
None: 51 percent
Children, but not living in the home: 36 percent
Children living in the home: 10 percent
If CCDC were smart they would begin to try to make DT more family friendly. They've already got it with some new open space for parks (proposed) but now they should push for more access to schools, forge ahead with the Children's Museum, family friendly condos etc. I believe you cannot have a truly urban environment without families and not just the middle/older age professional niche market.

Race:
White: 80 percent
Black: 4 percent
Hispanic: 4 percent
Asian: 1 percent
American Indian: 1 percent
Geez, we need more of a mix here.


Commute to work:
Drive: 34 percent
Work at home or homemaker: 34 percent
Walk: 15 percent
Bus: 3 percent
So DT is somewhat of an urban suburb? lol
mongozx said:
So DT is somewhat of an urban suburb? lol
A vertical urban suburb at that. More office space please. :)
I wanted to post this at the last thread:


OK, I know these are just initial concepts but can I make a suggestion if anyone (from Manchester) is listening?

Can't the hotel at the foot of Broadway be a a bit more graceful? With more curves, more glass, and less bulk? Does it have to be a flat top straight from the '70s? And I hope they aren't planning to put a Hyatt-like parking structure at the base, that would be suicide! Just remember, Manchester people, WE'RE NOT IN THE 70's ANYMORE! :D
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mongozx said:
I wanted to post this at the last thread:

OK, I know these are just initial concepts but can I make a suggestion if anyone (from Manchester) is listening?

Can't the hotel at the foot of Broadway be a a bit more graceful? With more curves, more glass, and less bulk? Does it have to be a flat top straight from the '70s? And I hope they aren't planning to put a Hyatt-like parking structure at the base, that would be suicide! Just remember, Manchester people, WE'RE NOT IN THE 70's ANYMORE! :D
I completely Agree. Let's pray the people at Manchester listen to the people at the public hearings and change the designs of some of those towers. That hotel tower looks OK, but w/ it being Right on our Waterfront and probably the most popular, or main street in San Diego (Broadway) the tower should Definitely have some type of iconic top or pinnacle at the least.
bushman61988 said:
I completely Agree. Let's pray the people at Manchester listen to the people at the public hearings and change the designs of some of those towers. That hotel tower looks OK, but w/ it being Right on our Waterfront and probably the most popular, or main street in San Diego (Broadway) the tower should Definitely have some type of iconic top or pinnacle at the least.
HMM if they change the design of one of those towers, they could built twin towers, hehe so we can have our own icon in SD...
Seems like the tower designs aren't to popular here. I didn't have a probalem with them that much. I understand the need for an ionic tower at the foot of Broadway though. I was thinking of a domed, or coned shape for the top? But nothing to abstract, or anything like that horrible tower they are planning in Chicago.
mongozx said:
If CCDC were smart they would begin to try to make DT more family friendly. They've already got it with some new open space for parks (proposed) but now they should push for more access to schools, forge ahead with the Children's Museum, family friendly condos etc. I believe you cannot have a truly urban environment without families and not just the middle/older age professional niche market.
Well said! :eek:kay:



mongozx said:
Geez, we need more of a mix here.
At 80% White, it appears that downtown is going through reverse "white-flight".
Ok All, since everyone here seems to have an opinion on the NBC project, here's your chance to tell CCDC what you really think about the proposal.

CCDC link asking for public input
http://www.ccdc.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/projects.navycomplex_survey
alex537 said:
HMM if they change the design of one of those towers, they could built twin towers, hehe so we can have our own icon in SD...
No more twin towers!! We have four sets already! ;)
no!

electra is going to be covered up by this tower :(
remember that the lane field development is the one that is supposed to be Iconic. The most iconic building on the pacific coast according to that article a while back. That is right across the street. It would be really cool to have two iconic towers side by side though.
I wonder what "ionic" means to San Diego developers?

I hope ionic isn't the civic center!!!

==========================

On a side note, I noticed there is a tower crane in University City. Can someone fill me in on that one?
^^ More bulky ass apartment towers at Costa Verde!!

Yes I'm getting sick of the flat topped roofs. We need more iconic tops. More spires. Maybe something like that tower in Riyadh where there is a big hole in the top. Iconic is stuff like Q1 in Gold Coast. That is sick!
SDfan said:
I wonder what "ionic" means to San Diego developers?

I hope ionic isn't the civic center!!!
We seriously have the least impressive Civic Center among the big cities of the West Coast. Does anyone know about the proposal to renovate Civic Theater?
http://www.ocmi.com/projectsdetail.asp?ProjID=127
sd_urban said:
No more twin towers!! We have four sets already! ;)
AMEN!!! NO more of those twin towers! There are far too many, and it makes the city's skyline look real boring!
I know it's off topic, but the twin or multiple look-alike tower thing is the biggest problem i have w/ the Las Vegas high rise boom. The skyline just doesn't look real authentic with multiple look-alike towers like that Turnberry Nonsense. They just look like bunched up resorts or something.

hngcm said:
no!

electra is going to be covered up by this tower :(
Yea, i think ur right. i was thinking about this too, and i kinda feel sorry for the people who bought these expensive homes for the view in Electra...i bet they're going to have lots to say about this project. but the good thing is it's only blocked from the angle at the foot of Broadway.
I hate to diverge from the current topic (esp. when I myself narrowly missed going to the first workshop), but I got this in the mail and it's good to see they're beginning to move on this -

C STREET MASTER PLAN PUBLIC WORKSHOP
Help shape the future of C Street.

What: Public workshop for input on the master plan to revitalize C Street

When: Thursday, April 20, 2006; 5:30 p.m. to 7 p.m.

Where: Westgate Hotel, Riviera Room (Third Floor), 1055 Second Avenue

Background: C Street is a major pedestrian and transit corridor of local and regional significance. The condition of the street has declined and today is in need of improvement. The purpose of the C Street Master Plan is to create an overall vision for the revitalization of the C Street corridor from India Street to Park Boulevard, and to define specific improvements, including trolley, transit and infrastructure investments, streetscape enhancements, improved vehicular and pedestrian circulation and public art opportunities. The goal of this first public workshop will be to solicit input on issues that should be addressed in the Master Plan and to invite the public to share its vision for C Street.

Contact: For more information on this workshop and all future events,
visit www.ccdc.com, or call (619) 235-2200. To be put on CCDC’s distribution list, email [email protected].
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I'm new here but here's some updates about some new developments in uptown.

1. The planning commission approved a plan for a 140 ft 302 University Ave. condo development in Hillcrest today. The Nimbyers' website: http://no301university.uptownplanners.org/about.html

2. Here's a picture of the La Boheme mixed use development in North Park. It's not exactly high rise, but I'm excited that its a mixed used development. With the opening of the theater and a new cafe/desert restaurant at 30th and University, I could tell that the are is livelier, especially at night, when a year ago, central North Park was relatively dead once the sun is gone.


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^^Thanks for that update. Its nice to hear that the Hillcrest project is moving along. Im very interested in the urban infill of the other areas of the city and county.

Also welcome to SSC! ;)

=====================
@mello

So that tower crane is for another Costa Verde project? Any idea on hieght...or should I say width?...And weren't they planning on something taller and more slender in that area, or was that another project?
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