SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA | Public Transport

sky10 said:

in sfo how is the bart rapid transit train system differs from the muni metro train system in terms of trains,fare control,formality and etc
bye

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BART is 3rd rail heavy rail train

MUNI is light rail with overhead power line that collects power to the train via pantograph

that's all I know

sequoias said:

BART is 3rd rail heavy rail train

MUNI is light rail with overhead power line that collects power to the train via pantograph

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The above is a very accurate and concise description of the two systems. They actually share four underground stations in downtown San Francisco (Embarcadero, Montgomery Street, Powell Street, and Civic Center). Muni Metro is on the upper level and BART is on the lower level. Muni Metro has five lines (J, K, L, M, and N) and operates entirely within the city limits of San Francisco. BART has four or five lines depending on how you count and stretches across the bay area region with terminal points in the cities of Freemont, Dublin, Pittsburgh, Richmond, and the SF airport area. The following map from www.urbanrail.net overlays the two systems:



Muni is a full transit provider that includes bus lines (diesel buses and electric trolley buses), the San Francisco cable car lines, and the F-Line (heritage streetcars). For more information, see the following websites:

http://www.urbanrail.net/am/snfr/san-francisco.htm
http://world.nycsubway.org/us/sf/
http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/SanFrancisco/MuniMetro/
http://www.streetcar.org/

It should be noted that San Jose also has a light rail system that my someday meet BART (or vice versa). There actually was a voter referendum that approved funding to extend BART to San Jose; however, more money is still needed. For more information on the San Jose light rail system, see the following website:

http://world.nycsubway.org/us/sanjose/

I was really impressed with the MUNI and BART when I was there. I think it's neat that they use $1 coins (the Sacagawea one) for tokens. Do they still do that?

BART was the first automated system in the US. It was also built to withstand earthquakes. Only 6 hours after the Loma Prieta in 1989, BART was running.

San Francisco BART 1st Transit System in US to Offer Wireless Underground

BART has become the first transit system in the nation to offer wireless communication underground
19 November 2005

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - BART has become the first transit system in the nation to offer wireless communication to its passengers underground.

"The goal we have is to completely wire 100 percent of the underground so a passenger wouldn't know if they were above ground or underground," said Chuck Rae, BART's manager of telecommunications revenue. "It would be seamless."

Contractors recently wired the subways in downtown San Francisco. Downtown Oakland is probably next, followed by Berkeley. The wireless companies will determine the timetable.

Five of the Bay Area's six wireless companies have signed up to use the system and the sixth is in negotiations, Rae said. The arrangement will generate hundreds of thousands of dollars, and eventually millions, for Bay Area Rapid Transit.

Wireless access could help stave off fare increases. BART's deal with the phone companies for downtown San Francisco will bring in at least $408,000 a year. As additional stations, tubes and tunnels are wired, that amount could rise to more than $2 million a year.

Rae said BART pays nothing to install the antennas. Nextel serves as the coordinator, planning, paying for and overseeing the work. Other carriers have the right to buy in and make agreements to reimburse Nextel and pay annual fees to BART.

While other transit agencies have deals with specific cell-phone services, BART is the first in the nation to make a deal allowing underground access to all wireless companies and their customers, Rae said.

Ive heard about this, but i didnt know the carriers were playing bart money, seems like a very good idea. Its free revenue for them and gives additional services to passengers. Next they should install wifi everywhere with google like they are trying to do in san francisco

I heard they were going to do something similar in NY....

San Francisco Historic Streetcars

The F-Market & Wharves historic streetcar line runs six miles each way between Fisherman’s Wharf and the Castro District. Along the way, you’ll see sights both historic and modern.

The streetcars most often seen on Muni’s historic routes are the streamlined PCCs, designed in 1935 by the Presidents’ Conference Committee of US electric railway leaders to bring modern looks and technology to streetcars. The most successful streetcar ever built, 4,500 PCCs ran in 33 cities, including San Francisco. Muni currently operates seventeen PCCs on the F-line. Three double-end cars were bought new by Muni in 1948. Fourteen 1946 single-end cars came second-hand from Philadelphia in 1994. Now restored, all are painted in authentic liveries of cities that once operated this great streetcar.













Inside a PCC streetcar:






This older type of streetcar was designed by Cleveland transit leader Peter Witt and ran in many US cities, though never in San Francisco. Milan, Italy built hundreds of Peter Witts in 1928 and are still running some today. Muni got one car, No. 1834, as a Trolley Festival gift in 1984 and liked it so much they obtained ten more in 1998 to meet the huge F-line rider demand.





source/more info: http://www.streetcar.org/mim/streetcars/fleet/index.html

San Francisco currently has a PCC car from the Newark City Subway donated by NJTransit after they bought new cars:



New Cars:


Does anyone have a picture of the Newark cars in SF?

I just love the San Francisco Historic streetcars. I had an opportunity to try them out a few months ago while I was there visiting a friend and man! There is just some really awesome nostalgic feeling that you get when you ride them. The view outside their windows is, of course, a major contributor to the experience as well. I wish Portland would run these things in our existing streetcar lines from time to time, even if its just for some festivity.

SF Streetcars are cool, but cable cars are much better imo. Too bad cable cars have like 1 hour wait comes to ride on them

Are those new ones also Muni owned and serve as Muni Metro? I don't often ride underground while I was there..

the historic cable cars are also run by muni, but theyre basically only for tourists as directly below them run muni metro and below them bart

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^^
It remembers me Line 1 (Green) of the Underground of Boston

Milan, Italy built hundreds of Peter Witts in 1928 and are still running some today.

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I think in Milan about a coupple of hundreds of Peter Witts are still running, of more than 700 initially built...

I find this picture particularly impressive:



Note that a trolley pole equipped streetcar is operating on the same wires as an electric trolley bus. The streetcar uses one leg of the two-wire trolley bus power supply. You can't do that with a modern pantograph equipped streetcar without resorting to some exotic wire arrangement.

Some of those are quite nice. The red and cream one I find particuarly attractive.
Not sure I like that NJ Transit one. Its pretty ugly.

They're not as nice as my home town's W class trams

I believe that San Francisco has two W-class trams as part of its fleet. They don't look as nice as the Melbourne ones that have been painted in the more suitable brown City Circle or restaurant colours, they're probably green and yellow as per the colour scheme they were in when they were retired.

San Francisco Trolleybuses

San Francisco has a big trolleybus system. Most trolleybuses are build by ETI/Skoda

Still some old Flyer trolleybuses build in the 70s are still running







Regards wouter

have you got a map of the SF trolley system??