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Cape Town, Bydgoszcz
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am from North Western Poland and I found something quite interesting and probably unknown to many Scots. My sister once dated a young (Polish) guy from a small town of
Łobżenica and his surname was a bit puzzling: Flynn. It sounds very British. I decided to research this matter and I found that historically around one third of citizens of this
town had Scotish ancestry. I found names like Macdonald and a few polonised names like, Czochran (Cochrane), Kabron (Cockburn) and Machlejd (Macleod) and
in other towns: Czamer (Chalmers), Dziaksen (Jackson), Szynkler (Sinclair). Of course we have a legendary 17th century character from a famous in Poland historical
fiction trilogy whose name was Ketling (Hassling-Ketling of Elgin).

How come? I started to read and I found that the history of Scottish settlement is as old as 15th century (merchants) and in the end of 16th century it was estimated that Scottish
population in Poland could have been as big as 100 000 people!!!
Entire Poland had population of around 5 million back then and it was one of the biggest countries in Europe (land). Scots were settling mostly in the West and Northern parts
so they had to be a big chunk of population in many regions. Apparently they loved the people and the fertile soil also Polish kings gave them many rights and privileges
especially after entire Scottish regiments were fighting for Polish kings in 17th century (King Stephen Batory). It makes me think, and I heard it twice already, words of
Scots who I met over the years (mostly in South Africa) who said to me that Poles and Scots 'click' somehow- that there is something similar in them in many ways
(as oppose to English I guess ;)). It was usually during conversation about Polish WWII soldiers settling in Eastern Scotland in 1940's.

BBC
In the 17th century, Poland was described as ‘Scotland’s America’. Contemporaries estimated that 15,000-40,000 Scots were settled in Poland mainly
as merchants, peddlers and craftsmen. This mass migration is largely forgotten in modern Scotland, though is remembered still in Poland. The names of the descendants
of Scots immigrants are still to be found in Polish phone books, such as Ramzy from Ramsay, or Czarmas from Chalmers. Danzig still has many Scottish street names and
villages in the hinterland are named after the Scots - Dzkocja, Skotna Góra, Szotniki or Szoty.
https://www.google.co.za/urlsa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CFAQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fhistory%2Fscottishhistory%2Feurope%2Fintro_europe.shtml&ei=TEXFUrquKs2ThgezqYD4AQ&usg=AFQjCNHZNgITIDlBrSx65Zcr2hcSSoVKxw&bvm=bv.58187178,d.ZG4



here is an interesting article (in 19th century Poland did not exist so Western Prussia is what is now northern Poland)

William Lithgow, who visited Poland in 1616, gives a short account of them. He comments thus on his experience in Poland in that year: -

'Being arrived in Crocko or Crocavia, the capitall city of Polland (though but of small importance), I met with diverse Scotish Merchants, who were wonderfull glade
of mine arrival there, especiaIly the two brothers Dicksones, men of singular note of honesty and Wealth. .........'


He continues after an interval: 'Polland is a large and mighty Kingdome, puissant in Horsemen and populous of strangers being charged with a proud Nobility, a familiar and manly Gentry,
and a ruvidous Vulgarity.' Between Cracow, Warsaw, and Lublin, he met many compatriots. 'Here I found abundance of gallant, rich Merchants, my Countrey-men, who were all very
kind to me, and so were they by the way in every place where I came, the conclusion being ever sealed 'with deepe draughts, and God be with you.'

He continues to praise the Land of Poland-which suited the Scottish adventurer-in an oft-quoted passage: 'And for áuspicuousness, I may rather tearme it to be a Mother and Nurse,
for the youth and younglings of Scotland, who are yearely sent hither in great numbers, than a proper Dame for her owne birth; in cloathing, feeding, and inriching them with the
fatnesse of her best things; besides thirty thousand Scots families, that live incorporate in her bowells. And certainely Polland may be
tearmed in this kind to be the mother of our Commons, and the first commencement of all our best Merchants' wealth, or at least most part of them.'
https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDoQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tartansauthority.com%2Fglobal-scots%2Fpoland%2Fscots-in-poland-1576-1793%2F&ei=TEXFUrquKs2ThgezqYD4AQ&usg=AFQjCNFBr_HpaHoVE5TR-BSJbYuCrwW7dQ&bvm=bv.58187178,d.ZG4




Scottish Resident in Poland, Patrick Gordon, in a letter of 1615 to King James, writes among other thing

Your Majesty's subjects from Scotland trafficking here many years ago for their virtue and good behaviour were esteemed equal ( if not superior) to any Christians
whosoever and many of them lived here with credit, and others returned home with riches, without any offence, because good order was observed amongst them;
but now, discipline being dissolved the most part of them use such a dissolute form of living that they are odious to the inhabitants, hurtful to themselves and
despised by strangers, to ( the) great ignominy of the whole nation.
I blame vodka for the above :)
Entire article: https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&r...IAYSzSalEj8wydNzh0NZ-9w&bvm=bv.58187178,d.ZG4s :https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&r...IAYSzSalEj8wydNzh0NZ-9w&bvm=bv.58187178,d.ZG4


30 000 Scots in 17th century Gdansk : https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&ved=0CFwQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inyourpocket.com%2Fpoland%2Fgdansk%2FScottish-Gdansk_72138f&ei=TEXFUrquKs2ThgezqYD4AQ&usg=AFQjCNFRx7ptIGti5Usu3IBzidIo_VM7GA&bvm=bv.58187178,d.ZG4

And other interesting articles https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&ved=0CFYQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sikorskipolishclub.org.uk%2FScots_in_Northern_Poland.pdf&ei=TEXFUrquKs2ThgezqYD4AQ&usg=AFQjCNEeH5SUpqA6Uj-O1rSVf-k56nCdSA&bvm=bv.58187178,d.ZG4


https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&ved=0CGoQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcosmopolitanreview.com%2Fscotland-and-poland%2F&ei=KFvFUpSzHYaihgfmkYGoDw&usg=AFQjCNE1LPfxT9OXPZsENpbrEcknkw4sHQ&bvm=bv.58187178,d.ZG4




Many villages in my region have names like Scotland (Szkocja) or Scotish (Szoty, Szkoty)






 

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Pijcie portera z BŁ!
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Scots can into Poland ;)

It is mentioned that poles didn't forget about this migrations but actually I had no idea about it either.
 

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In Poznań - Greater Poland, there is also a lot of examples which show the scottish impact on local culture and economy.
 

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I am intrigued by this topic. I bet millions of people world wide have no idea of their true identity, beyond their grandparents..
 

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Cape Town, Bydgoszcz
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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Precisely. I found recently that 3 of my great great grand parents were English, French and German (John Alphons from Manchester seaman that my great great grand mother met in Danzig and married, Jean Baron probably French prisoner of war after 1871 Prussian- French war and Emilia Radke a German settler in Netze region). Well being from western Poland I could guess some German ancestry but French and English it was a surprise? In Poland there are, I guess, many hundred of thousands of people with Jewish ancestry. There is also a long history of Dutch, Italian and Armenian mass immigration similar to the Scottish one.
 

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It shows just how it was as much a small world in the past as it is now. I do not think there is any such thing as one pure nationality.
 
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Cape Town, Bydgoszcz
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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Nationalism and national based countries..... well this is invention of 19th century. Before that it was often difficult to say what was your nationality. The great astronomer and mathematician Nicolas Copernicus for instance- for a long time Germans and Poles argued if he was German or Polish and after long debates the safest was actually to say that he was neither. He spoke both languages lived in area that was kind of considered both (a mostly German language spoken area that was a part of Kingdom of Poland and people living there preferred the rule of Polish kings over the German Teutonic order next door), he wrote in Latin and probably knew also Italian. Its better to make him a European than anything else.
 

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Cape Town, Bydgoszcz
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1,165 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
There is another thing- Polish Prime Minister is from Kashubia region close to Gdansk (Danzig) with mentioned long history of Scottish settling that infiltrated local culture. Many Scotts there assimilated withing the local population. Where do you think his first name comes from?

Donald Tusk :)
 

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Cape Town, Bydgoszcz
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Discussion Starter #11
Scots in Poland

From as far back as the mid 15th century there were Scots trading and settling in Poland. A Scot's Pedlar Pack in Poland, which became a proverbial expression, usually consisted of cloths, woollen goods and linen handkerchiefs. Itinerants also sold tin and ironware such as scissors and knives. Along with the protection offered by King Stephen in the Royal Grant of 1576 a district in Krakow was assigned to Scots immigrants.

Records from 1592 reveal Scots settlers being granted citizenship of Krakow giving their employment as trader or merchant. Payment for being granted citizenship ranged from 12 Polish florins to a musket and gunpowder or an undertaking to marry within a year and a day of acquiring a holding.

By the 1600s there were an estimated 30,000 Scots living in Poland. Many came from Dundee and Aberdeen and could be found in Polish towns from Krakow to Lublin. Settlers from Aberdeenshire were mainly Episcopalians or Catholics, but there were also large numbers of Calvinists. As well as Scottish traders there were also many Scottish soldiers in Poland.

The Scots integrated well and many acquired great wealth. They contributed to many charitable institutions in the host country, but did not forget their homeland; for example, in 1701 when collections were made for the restoration fund of the Marischal College, Aberdeen, the Scottish settlers in Poland gave generously.

Many Royal Grants and privileges were granted to Scottish merchants until the 1700s at which time the settlers began to merge more and more into the native population. Bonnie Prince Charlie was half Polish, being the son of James Edward Stewart and Clementina Sobieska, granddaughter of Jan Sobieski, King of Poland.
http://www.scotland.org/features/scotland-and-poland/




In just six months, the people of Scotland will vote in an historic referendum that could result in their country regaining independence after more than 300 years. A history of occupation over the past two centuries has given the Poles a profound sympathy with those fighting for freedom and independence, but the links between Poland and Scotland go far deeper than romantic sentiment.

One of the greatest figures in Scottish history, Charles Edward Stuart, better known as Bonnie Prince Charlie, who led an ill-fated attempt to regain the British throne for his family in 1745, was half Polish. His mother was Maria Klementyna Sobieska, the granddaughter of Polish King Jan III Sobieski. But the blood-ties between Scots and Poles are far more extensive than this royal link. A long history of Scottish migration to Poland, starting in the 15th century, means the country boasts several villages and districts named Nowa Szkocja or Szkocja (New Scotland), and Polonised Scottish surnames are surprisingly common – MacLeod became Machlejd, for example.

Scottish merchants and craftsmen began arriving in Poland in the 15th century. They were welcomed and encouraged to trade in Poland and the religious tolerance of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth made Poland an attractive place for Scots of many denominations to establish themselves.

Scottish_soldiers_in_service_of_Gustavus_Adolphus,_1631-cropped-

Scottish mercenaries fought on both sides during the Polish–Swedish Wars of the 17th century.

By the 17th century, it is estimated that there were at least 30,000 Scots living in Poland. Krakow was one of the main cities in which they settled, and in 1576, the Scottish community in Krakow was large enough that Poland’s King Stefan Batory, assigned a district of the city for them to settle in. Seventeenth century city records include many references to Scots becoming citizens, such as this one: “John Burnet, a Scot, producing birthbrieve dated Aberdeen, in Scotland, 29th July 1603, was admitted citizen of Krakow on taking the oath, and paid 10 Polish florins, a gun, and half a stone (lapis) of gunpowder.”

Many Scots prospered in Poland and some managed to rise through the ranks to notable positions. Under King Stefan Batory, Scottish merchants became suppliers to the royal court in Krakow and one Scot, Alexander Chalmers (known as Alexander Czamer) became Mayor of Warsaw four times between 1691 and 1702. A plaque commemorating him can today be found in Warsaw’s Old Town at his former home.
http://www.krakowpost.com/7881/2014/03/scots-in-poland-poles-in-scotland

The links between Scotland and the countries lying along the southern shores of the Baltic can be traced back as far as the late Medieval period, when Scottish knights accompanied the Teutonic knights on their Baltic Crusade. Since then there have been economic links that led western merchants--Scots included--to settle in the main seaports of Eastern Europe, such as Danzig. The main period of Scottish settlement in Eastern Europe occurred from 1560 to 1650, when Scottish, German, Dutch, and Jewish entrepreneurs were lured to the Baltic by the promise of economic opportunity. Still other Scots left in pursuit of religious freedom, as soldiers of fortune who ultimately settled on lands granted for service rendered, or as itinerant cramers (pedlars). According to one authority, by the 1640s as many as 30,000 Scots were resident in Poland alone. After 1650 Eastern Europe waned as a beacon for Scottish emigration, and some Scots returned to their Scottish homeland. The majority, however, became integrated into their adopted Baltic societies. In due course, their Polonised descendants would emigrate to America and elsewhere, some no doubt as part of the wave of Polish refugees who settled in North America in this century.
http://www.genealogical.com/products/Scots%20in%20Poland%20Russia%20and%20the%20Baltic%20States%201550%201850%20%20Part%20Two/9977.html
 
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