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So if the Seattle process is the main culprit and they can see the results as well as we can what is it then that makes them refuse to update, revitalize, clean up duplication or drop outdated code that has been layered with new requirements. Why isn't the system streamlined? Is there no wiliness to say it is time. After all the publicity about homelessness affordability, design etc. it seems like this is the one area no one is willing to publicly acknowledge that could address all these issues.
 

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I do love the trope of developers being these devious, ultra-methodical grifters who know all the tricks to maximize profit and minimize investment. The truth couldn't be further from this. Thinking that Holland has teams of people sitting around reading the building and zoning codes looking for weaknesses to exploit so they can maximize their profit makes me laugh hysterically.
The thought that they WOULDN'T sit around and find the best markets to exploit, to find every corner to cut, and code weakness to exploit in order to maximize profits makes ME laugh hysterically. How naive can you be? At least we agree on one thing; the City of Seattle is enabling the kind of same-same junk designs that get built here.
 

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The thought that they WOULDN'T sit around and find the best markets to exploit, to find every corner to cut, and code weakness to exploit in order to maximize profits makes ME laugh hysterically. How naive can you be? At least we agree on one thing; the City of Seattle is enabling the kind of same-same junk designs that get built here.
The way the supply chain is structured in the real estate and construction industry promotes cutting corners and providing cheap specs. It's a systemic issue endemic to all forms of construction and development, be it a municipality, a university, a private owner, or anyone else. It's a result of everyone evaluating projects on a first cost basis and some horrendously misplaced ideals about risk management. It's almost never because the greedy pig developers are sitting around their office all day mono-maniacally reviewing zoning and building codes in search of ways to get ahead at the expense of the good citizens of Seattle.

Like I said, you're giving developers way, way too much credit. They're almost always some moron with too much money and an unwarranted ego directly related to their bank account. Some developers do have their act together and behave rationally and intelligently and in turn, their projects turn out better than the rest, e.g. Vulcan but they're few and far between. More often than not, it's someone with a lot of money, not a lot of patience, and some irrational beliefs. Believing that these guys are ruthless geniuses only further inflates their unwarranted sense of self. Please, please, please don't do that.
 

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So if the Seattle process is the main culprit and they can see the results as well as we can what is it then that makes them refuse to update, revitalize, clean up duplication or drop outdated code that has been layered with new requirements. Why isn't the system streamlined? Is there no wiliness to say it is time. After all the publicity about homelessness affordability, design etc. it seems like this is the one area no one is willing to publicly acknowledge that could address all these issues.

The reason Seattle doesn't fix their broken permitting process? That's easy.

Money.

They make a ridiculous amount by dragging these things out. It's disturbingly smart of them.
 

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Journeyman
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That's another false conspiracy theory. They can't scale up very easily (money, lack of candiates to hire, etc.). And they also have that new portal to deal with...they had to shift some staff to fixing that, uploading, etc.

Developers try to find ways to make money, yes. Some have higher standards for quality, permanence, risk avoidance, etc., and some are the cutting-corner variety. In any case they're trying to outmaneuver their competition. Some lose money and go out of business, or they don't even get that far...typically only the solid ideas get financed, pencil out, and get built. What gets built is what has a good chance of making money...in addition to the developers, it's about investment returns for the investment partners, and very little risk for the lenders.
 

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... Believing that these guys are ruthless geniuses only further inflates their unwarranted sense of self. Please, please, please don't do that.
I don't believe I ever used words like "ruthless geniuses", but you're free to re-read my comments. Even a moron with 10 digits can do basic math. I think of developers like Holland as being carpetbaggers (as I said before), crude capitalists who are in it for a buck, and could care less about the community they are dumping their junk in. Howard Wright, local boy, built the Space Needle. What do today's out of town developers give us? A bunch of identical boxes that are virtually impossible to differentiate. Institutional investors come in many forms, but they share the same crude desire - mo' money. They don't care about Seattle. And apparently Seattle doesn't care about Seattle because they enable these creeps.
 

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I don't believe I ever used words like "ruthless geniuses", but you're free to re-read my comments. Even a moron with 10 digits can do basic math. I think of developers like Holland as being carpetbaggers (as I said before), crude capitalists who are in it for a buck, and could care less about the community they are dumping their junk in. Howard Wright, local boy, built the Space Needle. What do today's out of town developers give us? A bunch of identical boxes that are virtually impossible to differentiate. Institutional investors come in many forms, but they share the same crude desire - mo' money. They don't care about Seattle. And apparently Seattle doesn't care about Seattle because they enable these creeps.

Re-read HammerAndNail's comments regarding regulations driving design. Most in-town developers are doing the same boring stuff as the institutional types because the regulatory environment facilitates a particular type of design. Your point about creative design in the city's history is well-taken and deserves more discussion but it's certainly not the fault of the out-of-towners that a lot of design is unremarkable. It's a problem of lack of political vision and courage.

Furthermore, some of the more interesting projects in town are being developed by your so-called "carpetbaggers" like Westbank's two big twin projects and First Light and Skanska's 2+U.

Also developers do development because they like building stuff. If they truly didn't care about what they were building they would be pencil-pushing in corporate finance instead.
 

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SEATTLE | 800 Stewart (800 Stewart St) | 53 Stories | 600 feet | 605 feet | 184 m

So an EDG packet draft was uploaded on 05/15 for this site.

Anyone who is looking to grab pics from it, don't expect miracles. It's Weber Thompson.

53 stories, 550 feet, 496 units, 121 parking stalls, 12,286 sqft of retail, 41,228 sqft of office.

Multiple options are in the packet...obviously the preferred option is the only one remotely interesting. Medium Grey blue windowed box #14 incoming.


Follow this link for the packet:


https://cosaccela.seattle.gov/Portal/cap/CapDetail.aspx?type=1000&fromACA=Y&agencyCode=SEATTLE&Module=DPDPermits&capID1=19DPD&capID2=00000&capID3=27023
 

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Annman
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Thanks for that. Will be some nice additional height to a very 'capped' looking area. Tend to agree, only the 'Refract' design option is worth even talking about. The other two are very unimaginative and look exactly like more NBBJ-inspired glass boxes.
 

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I kind of like this one, I'm sure it'll get less cool over time, but the gesture of the angled cut outs is nice, gives the tower a nice taper.
Side note, in those drawings it seems to have an total height of 600' (116' abv sea level to 716'), it's all a draft so many that's being tweaked. I made this model 600' anyways!
800 Stewart new 1 by David Boynton, on Flickr
800 Stewart new 2 by David Boynton, on Flickr
 

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Jeeze...just imagine if all those buildings actually do get built.

That's some hardcore downtown density that puts us in pretty rarified air for these parts.
 

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iogen had it right, 600 feet was mentioned numerous times in the edg file as the building height... Looks like a change to the height for the feed is pending
 
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