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Twinkie
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733 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I found these population figures in the Seattle Metro real estate guide 2008. I thought they might be of interest to this community!

Admiral/W Seattle Junction 21,770
Alki 5,242
Arbor Heights 6,114
Ballard 29,428
Beacon Hill - Central 9,429
Beacon Hill - North 14,070
Beacon Hill - South/New Holly 13,177
Belltown 8,937
Broadview/bitter lake 12,667
Capitol Hill 29,634
Cascade/Eastlake/South Lake Union 10,536
Cedar Park/Meadowbrook 12,637
Central District 16,805
Columbia City 17,426
Delridge 4,819
Downtown/Int'l District 8,769
SODO 2,559
Fauntleroy 13,271
First Hill 16,028
Fremont 10,106
Georgetown 1,149
Greenlake 13,027
Greenwood 16,045
Haller Lake 10,194
High Point 7,580
Highland Park 14,369
Judkins Park 2,878
Laurelhurst/sand point 9,387
Licton Springs 8,391
Madison Park 4,942
Madrona/Leschi 9,989
Magnolia 21,591
Montlake 8,208
Mt. Baker/n rainier 5,512
North Beach 10,948
Northgate 12,682
Olympic Hills 14,338
Phinney Ridge 6,636
Queen Anne 33,239
Rainier Beach 14,577
Ravenna 24,122
Riverview 4,529
Seward Park 9,296
South Park 3,777
U District 17,421
Wallingford 19,335
Wedgwood 14,489
Westwood 12,310
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Top 10 densest neighborhoods
1. First Hill 23,267ppsm
2. Capitol Hill 17,659
3. Central District 12,660
4. Fremont 10,467
5. Downtown/Intl District 10,417
6. Queen Anne 10,366
7. Licton Springs 10,233
8. Greenwood 10,033
9. U District 9,844
10. Wallingford 9,826

Other dense neighborhoods:

Beacon Hill 7,300 ppsm
Cascade/South Lake Union 7,017
High Point 8,767
Judkins Park 9,079
Northgate 7,076
Phinney Ridge 8,322
Ravenna 9,441

They list Belltown's population density at 5,327...which I think is somehow wrong...are they missing a 0? I'm thinking U District's density is low because of the UW campus. Ballard's density was listed at 5,409. Magnolia was one of the lowest with 1,154ppsm - but they included Discovery Park obviously.

Population and density figures were supplied by the Puget Sound Regional Council.
 

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Journeyman
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16,923 Posts
Without knowledge of boundaries it's hard to guess, and the numbers are pretty meaningless. Capitol Hill, for example, has areas dominated by parks and houses, and it also has our densest tract at 44,500 in 2000.

Belltown's density was currently closer to 30,000/sm by 2006 numbers, if you extrapolate part of tract 72. It would be impossible to make it 5,000 by any set of boundaries, but it would also be difficult to make it 50,000 for the whole neighborhood by any definition.
 

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Twinkie
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733 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
^ Oh, well I'm someone who doesn't care about tracts. To me, they're meaningless in real estate terms. Tracts are combined to create neighborhoods, which these numbers are all about.
 

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Journeyman
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16,923 Posts
^ Oh, well I'm someone who doesn't care about tracts. To me, they're meaningless in real estate terms. Tracts are combined to create neighborhoods, which these numbers are all about.
True, but they give you a basis for understanding the numbers. Anyone reading their website is probably clueless about this stuff. If you factor in the errors, they probably know less after reading it than before.
 

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I found these population figures in the Seattle Metro real estate guide 2008. I thought they might be of interest to this community!

Admiral/W Seattle Junction 21,770
Alki 5,242
Arbor Heights 6,114
Ballard 29,428
Beacon Hill - Central 9,429
Beacon Hill - North 14,070
Beacon Hill - South/New Holly 13,177
Belltown 8,937
Broadview/bitter lake 12,667
Capitol Hill 29,634
Cascade/Eastlake/South Lake Union 10,536
Cedar Park/Meadowbrook 12,637
Central District 16,805
Columbia City 17,426
Delridge 4,819
Downtown/Int'l District 8,769
SODO 2,559
Fauntleroy 13,271
First Hill 16,028
Fremont 10,106
Georgetown 1,149
Greenlake 13,027
Greenwood 16,045
Haller Lake 10,194
High Point 7,580
Highland Park 14,369
Judkins Park 2,878
Laurelhurst/sand point 9,387
Licton Springs 8,391
Madison Park 4,942
Madrona/Leschi 9,989
Magnolia 21,591
Montlake 8,208
Mt. Baker/n rainier 5,512
North Beach 10,948
Northgate 12,682
Olympic Hills 14,338
Phinney Ridge 6,636
Queen Anne 33,239
Rainier Beach 14,577
Ravenna 24,122
Riverview 4,529
Seward Park 9,296
South Park 3,777
U District 17,421
Wallingford 19,335
Wedgwood 14,489
Westwood 12,310
----------------------
Top 10 densest neighborhoods
1. First Hill 23,267ppsm
2. Capitol Hill 17,659
3. Central District 12,660
4. Fremont 10,467
5. Downtown/Intl District 10,417
6. Queen Anne 10,366
7. Licton Springs 10,233
8. Greenwood 10,033
9. U District 9,844
10. Wallingford 9,826

Other dense neighborhoods:

Beacon Hill 7,300 ppsm
Cascade/South Lake Union 7,017
High Point 8,767
Judkins Park 9,079
Northgate 7,076
Phinney Ridge 8,322
Ravenna 9,441

They list Belltown's population density at 5,327...which I think is somehow wrong...are they missing a 0? I'm thinking U District's density is low because of the UW campus. Ballard's density was listed at 5,409. Magnolia was one of the lowest with 1,154ppsm - but they included Discovery Park obviously.

Population and density figures were supplied by the Puget Sound Regional Council.
Yeah that seems like an unusual figure for Belltown. If Belltown is defined as the area bordered by Fifth Avenue on the northeast, Lenora on the southeast, Elliott Bay on the southwest, and Denny on the north, I'd expect the figures to be much higher--higher than Capitol Hill's, even, and possibly surpassing First Hill. (Although Capitol Hill has a much higher population, Belltown's is more compact, at least depending on the definition of the neighbourhood boundary.) I don't know how the Puget Sound Regional Council defined Belltown, though.

Such figures can be misleading, anyway: Hong Kong, for example, actually doesn't have very high density because so much of it is mountainous land that can't be developed. As a result, its density is much lower than that of Paris, which is so high partly because there is so little water surface or undeveloped green space (despite the enormous Bois de Boulogne and Bois de Vincennes on opposite edges of the city, respectively).

With respect to Seattle in general, compare the land area--217.2 km² (83.87 sq mi)--with the water area--152.0 km² (58.67 sq mi); the city's total water area is about three quarters that of its land area, or roughly four parts land, three parts water, which is a high proportion of water area if you think about it. (Then there's industrial land to think about, at least if by density we mean residential density.)

I don't know if the city's total area is included in statistics on the entire city's density.
 

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honk!!!
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2,886 Posts
^ It's land area (or at least it usually is, perhaps these wacky numbers included water area, haha). Though I've often wondered what they do with houseboats...
 

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Journeyman
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16,923 Posts
Belltown still doesn't come close to the densest tract in the U-District or Capitol Hill. But it won't be that many more years... BTW, I usually consider Stewart the south border.
 

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Yeah that seems like an unusual figure for Belltown. If Belltown is defined as the area bordered by Fifth Avenue on the northeast, Lenora on the southeast, Elliott Bay on the southwest, and Denny on the north, I'd expect the figures to be much higher--higher than Capitol Hill's, even, and possibly surpassing First Hill. (Although Capitol Hill has a much higher population, Belltown's is more compact, at least depending on the definition of the neighbourhood boundary.) I don't know how the Puget Sound Regional Council defined Belltown, though.

Such figures can be misleading, anyway: Hong Kong, for example, actually doesn't have very high density because so much of it is mountainous land that can't be developed. As a result, its density is much lower than that of Paris, which is so high partly because there is so little water surface or undeveloped green space (despite the enormous Bois de Boulogne and Bois de Vincennes on opposite edges of the city, respectively).

With respect to Seattle in general, compare the land area--217.2 km² (83.87 sq mi)--with the water area--152.0 km² (58.67 sq mi); the city's total water area is about three quarters that of its land area, or roughly four parts land, three parts water, which is a high proportion of water area if you think about it. (Then there's industrial land to think about, at least if by density we mean residential density.)

I don't know if the city's total area is included in statistics on the entire city's density.
There's no way Belltown is more dense than the area of Capitol Hill bounded by Broadway, I-5, Pike and Roy.
 

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I thought the U District seemed low. It must be because it includes the UW campus. Otherwise it could easily be in the top 5 for density. Of course all tracts include parks and what not that affect its density.
 

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Twinkie
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733 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I did my own unscientific calculation of Belltown density (using the coordinates below, I calculated Belltown at around 168 acres, or .26 mi2). This gives Belltown a density of over 34,000ppsm - which is definitely the highest in town.
 

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Journeyman
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16,923 Posts
No, we have two tracts in the 40s -- one on Capitol Hill and one in the U-District. You could also expand both to 168 acres and maintain similar figures. Belltown has another boom to go to reach their level.

...for residents at least. If you add its mix of jobs along with housing, its numbers are much better. Some hotels too.

How did you determine the 168? Even tracts 80.01 and 80.02 total 182.6. You'd want to add another 70 or so to go to 5th. You could cut it off at Elliott or Western to the west if you wanted, but it's still larger than 168.
 

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honk!!!
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2,886 Posts
When I calculated Belltown's density, I included a very large land area (it included the Denny Triangle!) and it was still around 17,000 people per square mile. Their Belltown number is trash, plain and simple.

I might re-calculate the number without the Denny Triangle. Though I would like some advice (perhaps from mhays?) for what a good south border for the neighborhood would be...
 

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Journeyman
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Stewart, which is also the border for census tracts.

If respected books have lots of errors, what are the odds that some two-bit out-of-town company will be accurate? On the former, I've seen glaring errors in the World Almanac, the Top 10, Almanac of the New West, every national and local newspaper... What's shocking isn't that they're human, but that some sort of editor doesn't catch the very obvious things, like the Belltown density figure.
 

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honk!!!
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2,886 Posts
Alright, I tried calculating Belltown. I used Denny Way as the northern boundary, 5th Ave as the eastern boundary, and Stewart as the southern boundary (but didn't include the market).

I get 8,703 residents over 0.365 square miles, which equates to a population density of about 23,845 people per square mile. This is using the 2000 census, and of course there many new condos and apartments, so it's probably quite a bit higher now. :)
 
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