Sites for new downtown skyscrapers?

2522 Views 22 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Pietari, Apr 9, 2006

Tony Sebo

Discussion Starter · Apr 9, 2006

Just caught a similar thread over on the Manchester forum and thought it would be a good subject for this one.

Given the wide range of issues that crop up here, the counter initiatives being implemented by sightlines and tall buildings policies etc and that old nugget of 'cluster' or 'freeform' where do you think Liverpool could build tall and it would make the block, street and whole district work better... and of course would enhance the skyline from longer views.

We talked briefly about a site I think would be a cracker for a tall, namely the 051 site, but what other sites, rows of scabby buildings of 'strategic' points could we develop a tall building? take a look at the Manchester thread actually, it is really good. People have provided before and after images...with all our snappers and renderers on this forum I am sure we could get some really good visuals?

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

Liverpool8

· #2 · Apr 9, 2006

True skyscrapers from Princes Dock northwards and from Parliament St soutwards. Within the 'downtown area' but excluding Princes Dock, Old Hall Street and Leeds St, midrises only. No decent warehouses to be demolished anywhere. No decent Georgian houses to be demolished anywhere. No skyscrapers at all if it's just another tall glass coffin.

Pietari

· #3 · Apr 9, 2006

Not `St Georges Hall.`

Not `St Georges Hall.` :bash:

Pietari

· #4 · Apr 9, 2006 (Edited)

Great Howard Street (Atlantic Avenue .....)

More seriously though (hands off `St Georges Hall.) somewhere like `Great Howard Street` aka `Atlantic Boulevard` (as rebranded (?))

The `Dock Road`

Pall Mall / Vauxhall Road / Scotland Road etc.

There are so many places that would benefit not just by the investment but also the `place scape` - vista vista vista.

Liverpool just has the sense of being somewhere and it lingers.

The `City Centre` has been largely chopped out - but it has never died.

The `Docks` - South, Central and Northern are obviously where much of where we want our front door to be.

Riverside / Dockside - World Side.

But we forget at our peril the need to `flush` back into the city hinterland that has been so disregarded.

I`d like to see a few `talls` around `Old Swan` for example.

Not to mention `Smithdown Road` and `Princes Park` and `Sefton`.

Vista Vista Vista.

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woody

· #5 · Apr 9, 2006

Cluster, last stand.........

Tony Sebo said:
Just caught a similar thread over on the Manchester forum and thought it would be a good subject for this one.

Given the wide range of issues that crop up here, the counter initiatives being implemented by sightlines and tall buildings policies etc and that old nugget of 'cluster' or 'freeform' where do you think Liverpool could build tall and it would make the block, street and whole district work better... and of course would enhance the skyline from longer views.

We talked briefly about a site I think would be a cracker for a tall, namely the 051 site, but what other sites, rows of scabby buildings of 'strategic' points could we develop a tall building? take a look at the Manchester thread actually, it is really good. People have provided before and after images...with all our snappers and renderers on this forum I am sure we could get some really good visuals?

Tony, I am in the "cluster" camp, apart from the CBD, the dock road/Parliment St including the southern tip of the Baltic Triangle is ideal. The area behind Lime St Station and the Kempston St area between London Rd and Islington would both be suitable IMO. Not to happy with the 051 site, look whats up the hill ........Metropolitan Cathedral, blocked views etc etc.

Liverpool8

· #6 · Apr 9, 2006

Pie -don't you think Atlantic Avenue or Boulevard might be trying too hard? Much prefer the Dock Road or even Sefton Street (Well, it's heading in that direction). Bring back Frogg Lane (instead of Whitechapel)!

Pietari

· #7 · Apr 9, 2006 (Edited)

Profit and loss.

woody said:
Tony, I am in the "cluster" camp,

Not to happy with the 051 site, look whats up the hill ........Metropolitan Cathedral, blocked views etc etc.

But just think of the views from the Clusters and 051.

Having said that the view that was opened up to the `Metropolitan Cathedral` from the `Fact Centre` out through the new `Ropewalks Square` blew me away.

I`d gone in for a drink (really cool bar in the `Fact Centre`) and coming back out and down the stairs the view surprised me (first time) - night time and flood light.

Quite something.

And I was not happy that a building had been knocked down to enable the square ..... so go figure.

Profit and loss.

I always enjoyed the view from `Kirklands` (hic) as was on Hardman Street along Pilgrim Street to the `Anglican` ..... blessed with vista vista vista.

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Dello

· #8 · Apr 9, 2006

How abot the top of Everton Brow. That would be pretty high above sea level and look great from the river.

Tony Sebo

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 9, 2006 (Edited)

Great start this.. would be nice if we could get some pics up during the week. This has to be fantasy of course, and aesthetics will always pop its head up but I like to explore what benefit a (good) tall building can bring to its neighbourhood, by way of increased density and activity. Maybe a skyscraper on the 051 would block the view (though move ten yards and it wil pop back into open view, (parelax) but it may help bring Lime St back to life? So maybe think of this aspect when thinking about sites you think could take a skyscraper.. a bit more than just the view or visual impact?

One huge concern I have that I don't think is considered enough is, given the city is succesful enough to be generating these skyscrapers, with the tons of activity they generate, placing them somewhere for aesthetic reasons, say on Atlantic, is the huge shift impact this would have on the city's centre of gravity, transport nodes etc. This is the main reason I have always supported the 'organic approach' to 'placement' i.e. you don't really do placement at all. The notion of taking downtown over into the south and north docks has always been an interesting prospect, for its visual potential.

A good place I have always felt would be good for a tall is slap on top of the met Quarter! I also like the site opposite Lewis', the curve it takes would look great if taken to some real height by a new building there.

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Dello

· #10 · Apr 9, 2006

Or build on top of the dock Road with the cars underpassing at street level

Pietari

· #11 · Apr 9, 2006 (Edited)

Little Bongs .....

Very true `Dello`,

There used to be a large number of council `Tower blocks` up there that were taken down in the 1980`s and the views out to sea and inland from such a high point must have been amazing.

Nevertheless - I`m sure that now there would be much more of an attempt at `control`. (removing all those tower block sort of reinstated `Everton Brow` along with `Everton Park` to a very pleasant view of some years previous - try W. G. Herdmans pictures for example - just no `Windmills.`

Pity really - that you never know what you have until it is gone.
But they were abused by the locals.

Having said that I`d love to see some new `talls` up there and regenerating the likes of `West Derby Road` and `Breck Road`.

Maybe we should build `talls` in each district with a big NEON sign on the top of each one in order to help us find our way around.

EVERTON
WEST DERBY
KIRKDALE
WALTON
OLD SWAN
LITTLE BONGS

etc.

:bash:

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Pietari

· #12 · Apr 9, 2006 (Edited)

I just love the area ..... it just drips history.

Liverpool8 said:
Pie -don't you think Atlantic Avenue or Boulevard might be trying too hard? Much prefer the Dock Road or even Sefton Street (Well, it's heading in that direction). Bring back Frogg Lane (instead of Whitechapel)!

L8,

I worked on `Great Howard Street` for seven years exactly opposite `The Tobacco Warehouse` (and `Stanley Dock`) - and the `Cow` and the `Bull` pubs where my locals - and if I ventured further afield I`d even go as far as `The North Star` or `The Goat` or the `Brammel Moore` a rare occasion.

I just love the area ..... it just drips history (and therefore `aka` potential.)

I`d get the `Dockers Bus` (No: 11) along the dock road according to need or walk up to `Scottie` to get home. (17d(?))

I think the `Dockers Bus` replaced the `Over head`

We are now in danger of `trying too hard` with all of the name changes. Yes.

Plazza this and Plazza that.

Never the less ..... it will always be a wonderful waterfront - connected to a wonderful city.

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Liverpool8

· #13 · Apr 9, 2006

Wasn't the number 1 bus route from Dingle to Seaforth the replacement service for the overhead? Or was it the 11 in those days?

Pietari

· #14 · Apr 9, 2006

It might have been the `1` but then I might have had double vision `11` due to the pubs.

JUXTAPOL

· #15 · Apr 9, 2006

Get the city growing along the North side of Leeds St, around the "Edge" development, running north, which will expand the waterfront vista. The Peel development in the central docks will add bulk towards the rivers edge.

kung_fuzi

· #16 · Apr 9, 2006

JUXTAPOL said:
Get the city growing along the North side of Leeds St, around the "Edge" development, running north, which will expand the waterfront vista. The Peel development in the central docks will add bulk towards the rivers edge.

Yes but we need this to be really 'TALL'.

woody

· #17 · Apr 9, 2006

Numro uno.........

Liverpool8 said:
Wasn't the number 1 bus route from Dingle to Seaforth the replacement service for the overhead? Or was it the 11 in those days?

It was the Number 1, started at Dingle Bus Sheds, just round the corner from the LOR Dingle station, it went via Mill Street then onto the Dock Road

JUXTAPOL

· #18 · Apr 9, 2006 (Edited)

kung_fuzi said:
Yes but we need this to be really 'TALL'.

That's what i was thinking, if Peel bulk up along the river front, then what's built behind can be really tall, i'm thinking 60 storeys maybe more, as this area is fairly derelict, with no views to obstruct, and little in the way of historic architecture to affect.

If you look at the waterfront as seen below, then it ends at Beetham/City Lofts, where Leeds St runs up away from the waterfront.

Waterloo Warehouse wouldn't have its riverside views affected, and the inland side view would be a new high rise city, rather than just Costco and Toys r us. Any businesses could be relocated further north into the Atlantic business park area.

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scouserdave

· #19 · Apr 9, 2006

Good shout Tony. Have to think about that one. Just had these pics sent to me that were taken from Winter Hill, near Bolton. I'll include the person's question, but my question first. How high would a building have to be in "downtown", to be seen from Manchester? I'll leave the area of "downtown" up to you guys. I'd just love to have at least one massive **** off structure thrusting itself in the sky, clearly viewed from the east

Here's the pics and the senders question. Pics are poor quality (obviously), but the views are fascinating :cheers:

"I took these pics last week from Winter hill ,near Bolton. Good views over Billinge hill to both cathedrals and st johns beacon. wonder if you can help with the other one. presume it's Bootle docks with all the cranes and wind turbines , but it's really bugging me as to what church that is in that pic and where ? have had a look around your site, but as yet not been able to identify it."

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Accura4Matalan

· #20 · Apr 9, 2006

JUXTAPOL said:
That's what i was thinking, if Peel bulk up along the river front, then what's built behind can be really tall, i'm thinking 60 storeys maybe more, as this area is fairly derelict, with no views to obstruct, and little in the way of historic architecture to affect.

If you look at the waterfront as seen below, then it ends at Beetham/City Lofts, where Leeds St runs up away from the waterfront.

Waterloo Warehouse wouldn't have its riverside views affected, and the inland side view would be a new high rise city, rather than just Costco and Toys r us. Any businesses could be relocated further north into the Atlantic business park area.

I completely agree Juxta. I've always favoured that area for a highrise cluster over anywhere else, including Lime Street. More space, less heritage, and its closer to the waterfront so it better enhances the skyline. There is scope for a very large, modern district of buildings stretching from Princess Dock all the way down to Stanley Dock. Lets hope they dont waste it.

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