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Sales of guns, sales of ammo, and number of licenses issued, have all had bigger increases under Obama's reign, than any previous president.

The charts are quite remarkable - there has been a *dramatic* increase in guns/ammos/licenses over the last few years.
 

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If he was the only person in the cinema that didn't have a gun ? he would have used explosives to kill dozens of people ( possibly as a suicide bomber) The entire Us military is powerless to stop mentally deranged people indiscriminately killing complete strangers in public places

It's not about more guns; it's not about less guns !

If he craved publicity and infamy ,you can bank on a media circus if you use a gun. If this guy drove into a crowd and killed a dozen people it wouldn't have got political tongues wagging

I'd be more worried about some sort of neuro-toxin with this guy. How close was he to having all the information, training, skills, material means etc to release a neuro-toxin. He wasn't on anyone's radar apparently . He could have eventually got a job at an incredibly sensitive government/military facility like that centre for disease control they have in atlanta
 

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Work out how many people are in the world.....then nhow many guns..........then how many loonies.......and stuff like this happens..........stuff meaning shit OK
 

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this is utterly terrifying to read, an exert outlining a small part of the port arthur massacre (just prior to this he had already killed over 24 people including 12 in 15 seconds, with 11 more victims to follow):


Ahead of him were Nanette Mikac (née Moulton) and her two young children, Madeline, 3, and Alannah, 6 years old.[11] Nanette was carrying Madeline and Alannah was running slightly ahead. By now they had run approximately 600 metres from the car park.[11] Bryant opened his door and slowed down. Mikac moved towards the car, apparently thinking he was offering them help in escaping. Several more people witnessed this from further down the road. Someone then recognised him as the gunman and yelled out "It's him!".[11] Bryant stepped out of the car, put his hand on Nanette Mikac's shoulder and told her to get on her knees.[11] She did so, saying, "Please don't hurt my babies".[11]

Bryant shot her in the temple, killing her, before firing a shot at Madeline, which hit her in the shoulder, before shooting her fatally through the chest.[11] Bryant shot twice at Alannah, as she ran behind the tree, missing.[11] He then walked up, pressed the barrel of the gun into her neck and fired, killing her instantly.[11] Bryant fired one or two more rounds at some people hiding in a bush, but he missed. Having seen the murders of the children, some people further up the road began running. They told drivers of cars coming down the road to go back. The people thought Bryant would head up the road, so instead they proceeded on foot down a dirt side road and hid in the bush. The cars reversed up the road to the toll booth, and drivers stopped to ask the staff member what was happening. It appeared no one at the toll booth area knew what was happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)
 

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^ Seriously, our society has become weak. Bryant should have been put in a stadium and slowly tortured to death all watching live and on the big screen. His organs and limbs should have been slowly ripped apart over a whole day of entertainment. At least under our future Taliban style rule they will dish out this punishment as a strong warning to others and as a feel-good exercise for the masses rather than our weak-as "rehabilitation" society. And if the perpetrator kills themselves in the act then their family receives the punishment. Proper order!

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Nah, let him rot in jail, how is being saditisic any better than being these douche bags.
 

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Ever tried to explain to a Texan that everyone having guns increases the chance of killing, not reduces it, that having a gun 'ta pro-otek maself' increases your chances of getting killed as there's bound to be a lot of people out there who are better shots than you, can shoot you before you can get your gun, etc., and that there are a lot of fairly unstable people out there who given a gun will use it? Pointing out that Atlanta, or Washington DC, for instance, each have more murders each year than all of Australia is just not believed or dismissed as as just plain 'stoopid'.
They want to have their guns then they have to live with the consequences and instead of all this emotional outpouring should accept it as 'shit happens' and go on to the next murder or massacre.
 

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Ever tried to explain to a Texan that everyone having guns increases the chance of killing, not reduces it, that having a gun 'ta pro-otek maself' increases your chances of getting killed as there's bound to be a lot of people out there who are better shots than you, can shoot you before you can get your gun, etc.
I have, a few times! I've found that Americans seem to view it as a consequence of freedom. That armed citizens are necessary to frighten the government away from committing tyranny. And that massacres suck but the alternative is a dictator. This was the view of the founders of the country, and why the 2nd amendment was written.

Also, common in the idea is that everyone in the public should be armed so they could fire back. But I don't think that's going to work out very well... it only takes a few seconds for someone to shoot many people. And you are going to need many seconds to get over the shock, reach for your bag and get your weapon ready. People are still going to die.

There are many people in favour of gun control in America, especially on the east and west coast. Recent poll shows 43% support for tighter gun laws. But it's not happening even if that was over 50%, would need a constitutional change and support from the southern states.
 
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this is utterly terrifying to read, an exert outlining a small part of the port arthur massacre (just prior to this he had already killed over 24 people including 12 in 15 seconds, with 11 more victims to follow):


Ahead of him were Nanette Mikac (née Moulton) and her two young children, Madeline, 3, and Alannah, 6 years old.[11] Nanette was carrying Madeline and Alannah was running slightly ahead. By now they had run approximately 600 metres from the car park.[11] Bryant opened his door and slowed down. Mikac moved towards the car, apparently thinking he was offering them help in escaping. Several more people witnessed this from further down the road. Someone then recognised him as the gunman and yelled out "It's him!".[11] Bryant stepped out of the car, put his hand on Nanette Mikac's shoulder and told her to get on her knees.[11] She did so, saying, "Please don't hurt my babies".[11]

Bryant shot her in the temple, killing her, before firing a shot at Madeline, which hit her in the shoulder, before shooting her fatally through the chest.[11] Bryant shot twice at Alannah, as she ran behind the tree, missing.[11] He then walked up, pressed the barrel of the gun into her neck and fired, killing her instantly.[11] Bryant fired one or two more rounds at some people hiding in a bush, but he missed. Having seen the murders of the children, some people further up the road began running. They told drivers of cars coming down the road to go back. The people thought Bryant would head up the road, so instead they proceeded on foot down a dirt side road and hid in the bush. The cars reversed up the road to the toll booth, and drivers stopped to ask the staff member what was happening. It appeared no one at the toll booth area knew what was happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)
On my last two trips to Port Arthur I've been to the Broadarrow Cafe and sat there and just can't feel anything. The same with Clifton Hill Station where Julian Knight did his stuff in 1987.

If you go to Port Arthur they prefer you don't talk about it to the staff, but there are photos of the staff who were shot and people do talk about it without asking. The only surprising thing I found was that the monument to the victims is not depressing at all.

The other thing is re Walter Mikac; he set up the Alannah and Madeline Foundation and also continued living and making something positive out of something I can't comprehend not having kids anyway; amazing, totally admire him and when things are bad I read his websites. Mrs Mikac was in the wrong place. But Port Arthur and the convict settlement did the right thing in staying open, honouring those that were gunned down and being a friendly welcoming place not letting it be ruled by the actions of someone. That's the best revenge.
 

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The one thing that Howard did that was really courageous, gun laws, considering it was his voters that would have been most against it.

Tougher gun laws might not help in these cases, where they're carefully planned over a long period, but they would help where it's a crime of passion, where in a moment of anger a person has easy access to firearms. Not sure you would have got away with getting an arsenal together like that here either, without being detected.
 

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Never was a fan of Howard but three things he did well:

- introduced the gun control laws;

- introduced the GST;

- always acknowledged his wife immediately in victory speeches - something Hawke notably only did as an afterthought on one uncomfortable occasion.
 

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Never was a fan of Howard but three things he did well:

- introduced the gun control laws;

- introduced the GST;

- always acknowledged his wife immediately in victory speeches - something Hawke notably only did as an afterthought on one uncomfortable occasion.
He was pretty much forced to on the first point - the credit from that was fighting against people from the right of his party (and his hardline supporters) that would have been against any gun contorl.

The third is a meh - politicians always use their family as a selling point. So I'd give no poliie credit for that.

The biggest credit for Howard was he knew how to play the political game better than most others. But that credit is for playing the game well - but the flipside to that that involved cynical game playing and wedge politics (like children overboard) that did him no credit at all.

He was good at reading where the political mood was headed (even if it wasn't good for the country) and following it quickly so it made him look like he was leading rather than following. Not sure how he managed to scare off people questioning him with the feigned indignation that he used as a tactic to avoid the question. I guess a little variation to Keating's aggression.
 

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Exactly Kelli & Brizer. Its just obvious that lax gun laws allow appalling incidents like this to occur.
Especially when you have people who can't control their emotions (esp. anger). Having quite a few of them around and combining it with easy access to guns will mean these massacres will happen at some stage - just a matter of when.
 
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