[murdomac]

We've talked about this before on the forum but I was intrigued a couple of weeks back when that Turner painting, View of Venice, was sold at an auction in New York for over £20million.

The puchaser was the owner of a Las Vegas casino who owned a variety of works by amongst others Picasso and Renoir.

Now, this gentleman might have been fabulously wealthy before he owned a Vegas casino. Indeed he might have other business interests that create cash for him.

Nontheless I have this impression of all the thousands of blue collar Americans hunched over the ranks of slot machines draining away their savings, their heath care reserves, their children's inheritances so that another super expensive painting can join some others in a private collection.

Would Glaswegians be better off with a super casino in the city?

Would jobs be created?

Hardly. A casino does nor require a large work force to support it and the transferrance of spending from other sectors would most probably result in a net reduction of jobs in the city.

Would a casino create regeneration in a part of a city?

This might be possible in a very small way. Such a casino would not require large hotels around it as the customers would be local. Any offices that might situate themselves in an adjacent complex would be likely to be in the city anyway as would retail for the same reason associated with the hotel question. Thus any additional regeneration would be marginal, localised and quite possibly cannibalistic of other projects in the city.

Would a new iconic piece of architecture be added to the city?

This is possible but most unlikely.

Would a super casino add prestige to the city and bring visitors.

No. Glasgow competes with Manchester and Dublin and the likes of Barcelona and Munich abroad. A super casino would not raise greater rankings in that league. As for visitors London gets the international high rollers and Blackpool will suck in most of England north of Watford. That leaves only Scots who are already in the vicinity.

Finally, will the average Glaswegian be better off with a super casino in he city?

Just the loan sharks!

Yes this has been debated before but there is a greater variety and range of forumers than before so some interesting and possibly illuminating comments may well be forthcoming.

 

[Socceroo]

One large Casino does not make Glasgow into Las Vegas. If it were on the Clydeside with the other two Casino then it might spark a bit of interest from folks from other parts of the UK and Ireland.

Glasgow gets a fairly substantial amount of Scandinavian and Icelandic shoppers still due to the costs of clothing and small electrical goods in their home countries. Whether they would want to part with their cash in a Casino is another matter.

Glasgow gets a lot of folks visiting for conferences at the SECC, again whether the would want to spend their hard earned cash in a Casino is another matter.

Anyone been in the Riverboat? Okay building on the outside. A bit of a dump on the inside. Full of late night drinkers using it as an after hours drinking den. No class at all, it has the internal finisings of a Bingo Hall or glorified amusement arcade.

Do we need another Casino? Well we certainly don't need another Riverboat.

 

[Vladimir V L]

I think this casino is just another example of the city councils almost suicidal aim to make Glasgow into the middle-class paradise that it will never become. There is obviously deep concern about the future in this country, well do anything to create a few extra jobs, even if what that means is an even more crime corrupted and immoral place to live.
It makes me sick how yuppified and money oriented Glasgow has become of late.

Try other cities in Europe (and I mean outside the UK). They (mostly) dont seem to need cheesy slogans, casinos, loads of shopping centres, luxury apartments and as many shiny skyscrapers as we can put up for the rich to get on with life. They just try to exist as cities for the people who live in them, no more than that. They compete, certainly, but not with the frigteningly right-wing approach this place takes.

This casino is just the final straw as far as Im concerned. We need to take a good hard look at what we really want life in this city to be like. Do we want to be like Lyon or European type cities? Or do we want to be like Miami or US style cities?

 

[Socceroo]

Miami please...... Comrade ........:hahaha:

 

[murdomac]

Vladimir,

I am sympathetic to your instincts on this one, at least up to a point. Allthough we are not quite soul mates yet!

However you do over generalise on North American cities albeit it is to reinforce a point.

There are no casinos in Miami as casinos are illegal in Florida as they are in most states. (Although you can embark on a floating casino which takes you 5 miles out where you can gamble.)

Granted Miami is diferent to most European cities and it does not have a walkable downtown, only pockets as in South Beach.

However a lot of American cities have a very safe and pedestrian friendly centre. Seattle for example has Pike Market and various squares. No casinos but plenty of coffee shops and bookshops and out door musicians (I am afraid that is far more middle class than casinos Vladimir). Rather than a casino there is a "museum" dedicated to Jimi Hendrix. It is built in the shape of a giant smashed electric guitar and is a real attraction to rock fans and ordinary visitors from out with the city.

Perhaps Glasgow could build a centre dedicated to celebrating the memory of one of it local heroes rather than a super casino.

 

[BigAirdrie]

Casinos are great!

This casino malarky is a sign of the cluelessness of Glasgow City Council. In a city which already has five casinos (I think) and a well documented culture of addiction, we are supposed to welcome a super casino with open arms. Casinos are crap, the jobs they create are unskilled and crap (starting salary for a Glasgow croupier is around 11,000 pounds) and any plans that I have seen so far have all the architectural merit of the Savoy Centre. I think it is suicidal for a city that is trying to rebrand itself as a cool destination to see casino building as a viable form of urban regeneration. Also, what will happen to the hundreds of thousands of gambling tourists as they leave Ibrox, their wallets stuffed full of winnings? Some ned is going to hit them with a belt and rob them, that's what. Glasgow needs to concentrate on getting people off incapacity benefit (like unemployment benefit, except easier to sweep under the carpet) through sustainable development, not the quick fix of gambling.

 

[Vladimir V L]

sustainable development

What is that though. I agree with most of what you just said. But 'sustainable' to me is to produce our own goods, i.e. factories (which we seem to think we are above now, despite large parts of the country made poor by their absence). The only way Glasgow or indeed Scotland will ever be able to sustain itself is to create its own controlled economy and at last not rely on the opinions or wallets of tourists and banking firms from abroad.

The biggest problem Scotland has always faced, from shipbuilding to semiconductors to tourism, is the rest of the world.

 

[M_Riaz]

Super casino bid by 27 councils

The right to build the UK's first Las Vegas-style 'super casino' will be fought out between 27 local authorities, it has been revealed

Gambling Act 2005 Policy On Regional Casino Development In Glasgow.

 

[The Boy David]

This casino malarky is a sign of the cluelessness of Glasgow City Council. In a city which already has five casinos (I think) and a well documented culture of addiction, we are supposed to welcome a super casino with open arms. Casinos are crap, the jobs they create are unskilled and crap (starting salary for a Glasgow croupier is around 11,000 pounds) and any plans that I have seen so far have all the architectural merit of the Savoy Centre. I think it is suicidal for a city that is trying to rebrand itself as a cool destination to see casino building as a viable form of urban regeneration. Also, what will happen to the hundreds of thousands of gambling tourists as they leave Ibrox, their wallets stuffed full of winnings? Some ned is going to hit them with a belt and rob them, that's what. Glasgow needs to concentrate on getting people off incapacity benefit (like unemployment benefit, except easier to sweep under the carpet) through sustainable development, not the quick fix of gambling.

Once again BigAirdrie, I find myself agreeing with you entirely (although I had already come to the same conclusion as well).

Despite having only three posts to your name, you talk a great deal of sense - good on you.

 

[murdomac]

Boy David,

Are you and BigAirdrie related?

(And what's with the 3am posting? Studying late?)

So that's four against, two neutral and none for!

 

[The Boy David]

Boy David,

Are you and BigAirdrie related?

(And what's with the 3am posting? Studying late?)

So that's four against, two neutral and none for!

Hehe - indeed it is peculiar, and half of my family lives in Airdrie and it's surrounds - maybe, just maybe, it's one of them posting under this guise.


Lol joking of course, BigAirdire, just before your scared off for good...


Family is from Airdrie though. Nice place

 

[outofchaosaworld]

Family is from Airdrie though. Nice place

Nice? Nice as in compared to Kabul?

 

[Socrates]

If Glasgow City Council think it is a good idea, without knowing anything about it I can almost certainly tell you it is a bad idea.

 

[Mrs Mac]

**Against**

Who do thay think they are kidding? Glasgow needs a super casino like a hole on the head. Gambling debt is rising at such a rate that will become detrimental to the economy. Last year gambling debt amonted to 42 odd million quid, a rise of about 400% since 2001 (£8.6 million approx). The recent upsurge in online gambling is nodoubt contributing to the problem, but it seems to be "fashionable" to gamble a the moment. I guess this issue will not go away, if someone ie the government can make money from super casinos, then watch out for one in a street near you !! :soapbox:

Cheers, MrsMac

 

[gleegie]

Notch up one for.

To argue against new jobs because they're not manufacturing doesn't make sense. It's an offshoot of the leisure industry, the fastest growing sector of the economy. Low skilled manufacturing and government jobs are unsustainable. For Glasgow to tout itself as a major tourist destination and not build casino's is farcical and would place us at a competitive disadvantage.

The moral implications don't strike a chord with me either, excessive regulation stymies free society. As anyone who'd actually been to one would confirm, casino's are the last place you'd find groups of violent ned's.

 

[magicrealist]

Notch up one for.

To argue against new jobs because they're not manufacturing doesn't make sense. It's an offshoot of the leisure industry, the fastest growing sector of the economy. Low skilled manufacturing and government jobs are unsustainable. For Glasgow to tout itself as a major tourist destination and not build casino's is farcical and would place us at a competitive disadvantage.

The moral implications don't strike a chord with me either, excessive regulation stymies free society. As anyone who'd actually been to one would confirm, casino's are the last place you'd find groups of violent ned's.

Count me in. Las Vegas is an experience no-one should miss.

Anyway, are we not fed up of this nanny state of ours? Always telling you what you can and can't do or eat or anything! People should take some responsibility for their lives! If you become addicted to gambling (or anything for that matter) it's your problem, not an inherent problem with the causal factor. Otherwise, we'd all be at AA and GA meetings wouldn't we?

Gleegie: sorry to be a pedant but an inappropriate use of the apostrophe once could be considered a misfortune, but thrice looks like carelessness!
[with apologies to Oscar Wilde]

 

[Socrates]

The moral implications don't strike a chord with me either, excessive regulation stymies free society. As anyone who'd actually been to one would confirm, casino's are the last place you'd find groups of violent ned's.

The ned contingent in Glasgow casinos are the croupiers.

 

[gleegie]

You know how it is, wait ages for one apostrophe to come along and then three come along at once'''.

 

[Vladimir V L]

To argue against new jobs because they're not manufacturing doesn't make sense. It's an offshoot of the leisure industry, the fastest growing sector of the economy. Low skilled manufacturing and government jobs are unsustainable. For Glasgow to tout itself as a major tourist destination and not build casino's is farcical and would place us at a competitive disadvantage.

Low skilled service sector jobs are equally 'unsustainable', who is to pay for all these services if you have a (mass) workforce on close to minimum wage? Also, its a well known fact that manufacturing jobs pay more than those in the service sector. By all means have a service sector, but please leave out these awful casinos and allow at least some manufacturing, Ive never been to a place so anti in that respect...

 

[gleegie]

I'm not getting the relevance of manufacturing to casino's, they're a completely different sector.

Ironically they're symptomatic of Glasgow's growing wealth, manufacturing jobs migrate to low wage economies, casino's feed from the rich.