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Preferring feeder buses to park+ride is normally a hill I'd die on too, but one has to be practical also. This is not PTA WA and Perth with its excellent feeder bus system. TfNSW's skills in bus service planning and operation (the latter limited also by Treasury funding) are terrible and, like light rail, their skills don't look like improving any time soon. Meanwhile there's a big demand for the metro from westward, but no way to get on a train unless they arrive at the station before 7 to get a park. There is just one bus from Windsor that runs a few trips a day on weekdays only. No direct buses to and from anywhere west of Windsor. This means those people keep driving. The metro has plenty of latent demand that's constricted by inability to access a station.

And why should there be a limit on the length of a train line? I haven't mearsured the full Bankstown-Macarthur length but I don't imagine it's longer than the Mandurah-Butler line (and certainly not than when that's extended to Yanchep), which has trains running end to end, typically on-time. Cutting the Sydney circular line (if I can call it that) at Schofields makes as much sense as cutting the Perth north-south line at, say, Cockburn Central where a new line is joining in a few years. A lot of inconvenience for commuters. The reason does seem ideological - scoping for a different operator, but that's a very poor reason to bugger it up. It's best if the whole line is under one operator. Let them get different operators for other, independent, metro lines.
It’s arguably the most painful thing about TfNSW. We’re actually really good at creating good locations for interchanges, but terrible at providing sufficient links into those interchanges to make them work optimally. Seriously, the layout of Sydney is tsuch that it should be a layup, but it’s not, somehow. Major centres also happening to line up with major shopping and business areas. Suburban hubs located in ideal spots for interchanges despite the topography, and still they manage to screw it up.

I’ve pretty much reached the conclusion that the only solve is sacking basically the whole department and getting in fresh blood that can look at the problems differently. The whole department is stuck in its old ways, and can’t get out of its old thinking of car is king, the transport’s for the poors.
 

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Don't see why it need to be separate contracts for the construction.
Operation possibly.


With automated operations you arguably only need a single platform for turnaround, even though they have double planned for Bankstown.

Otherwise construction becomes difficult
I'd expect the smallish extension from Tallawong would get rolled into any construction contract for the St MAry's-Schofields section, so yes

Single platform limits you quite severely in tph so they won't do that IMO
 

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Preferring feeder buses to park+ride is normally a hill I'd die on too, but one has to be practical also. This is not PTA WA and Perth with its excellent feeder bus system. TfNSW's skills in bus service planning and operation (the latter limited also by Treasury funding) are terrible and, like light rail, their skills don't look like improving any time soon. Meanwhile there's a big demand for the metro from westward, but no way to get on a train unless they arrive at the station before 7 to get a park. There is just one bus from Windsor that runs a few trips a day on weekdays only. No direct buses to and from anywhere west of Windsor. This means those people keep driving. The metro has plenty of latent demand that's constricted by inability to access a station.
Yea, they haven't exactly been competent enough to deliver the cheaper, better solution. But I don't think that's a reason we should give up and support the crap, expensive solution. Politicians already have an overblown love affair with park-n-rides (looking at you, Scomo). They love them because they're relatively quick to build, there's a nice ribbon cutting photo op, and it appears to have an immediate improvement on people's daily lives. But of course we both know that it's just superficial. Hence it's a hill I'll die on.

And why should there be a limit on the length of a train line? I haven't mearsured the full Bankstown-Macarthur length but I don't imagine it's longer than the Mandurah-Butler line (and certainly not than when that's extended to Yanchep), which has trains running end to end, typically on-time. Cutting the Sydney circular line (if I can call it that) at Schofields makes as much sense as cutting the Perth north-south line at, say, Cockburn Central where a new line is joining in a few years. A lot of inconvenience for commuters. The reason does seem ideological - scoping for a different operator, but that's a very poor reason to bugger it up. It's best if the whole line is under one operator. Let them get different operators for other, independent, metro lines.
I don't know - hence the question.
 

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Single platform limits you quite severely in tph so they won't do that IMO
Even in automated operations?

Underground platforms (which I assume Schofield's will be) with cross-platform transfers and the ability to switch tracks (ala Chatswood) gets very complicated and expensive.

Next best is the Bankstown style end to end platforms but it's not great for load spreading
 

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How about if GW Metro goes to Schofields and takes over the T1 line up to Richmond, and Metro NW extends to Schofields and takes over the T1 line down to Blacktown? I know that creates a big loop for Metro NW, but it gives it an interchange with the Main T1 line while removing the Richmond line trains from the Main Western line.

Other option is the West Metro branches off after Westmead and takes over the Richmond line, with the other branch going to WSA.
 

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I can't see either Metro line being extended to Richmond - light rail seems more likely if any conversion was to happen as Jase said. I'm also surprised they still haven't increased the frequency of feeder buses from Windsor to Rouse Hill by now.

The photo render is taken from west looking east. The metro is on a viaduct parallel to the south side of Schofields Rd. The Richmond line can be seen crossing Schofields Rd just next to the metro station. The proposed centre is bounded by Siding, Rosetta, Veron and Schofields Rd.
I'd forgotten that Schofields was due to be another skytrain station - for some reason I thought it was going to be underground.
 

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I think if the metros interchange at Schofields, the Richmond line should be Cumberland line only and the only line to service the stations between Blacktown and Westmead
The western line should offer more express services.
Richmond line users who wish to get to the CBD can interchange at Blacktown or Schofields for what should be faster and/or more frequent journey options
Can extend the Richmond double track to Riverstone where half the services can start from on that end
 

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I like the idea of a Leppington to Richmond being the only like terminating at Richmond. Also stopping all stations allowing many Penrith and other trains running express. Additional trains starting at St. Mary's can run all stations to the CBD.

The Richmond services would then be able to interchange with 3 Metro lines (maybe 4), CBD express trains, CBD all stoppers, Macarthur/KSIA trains as well as whatever connects through Villawood.

The only negative is that 9 stations won't have a single seat to the CBD (but will still likely have a faster trip than currently).
 

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I'd forgotten that Schofields was due to be another skytrain station - for some reason I thought it was going to be underground.
Out of interest, is there any further info on the proposed Schofields to St Marys Metro stations/where did you see the plan for skytrain?
 

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That render showing the viaduct is only speculative. Certainly, if the line was on the surface, it would need the long viaduct to cross the Eastern Creek floodplain - but it could also be underground. That detail is obviously yet to be planned. What fascinates me is how they would design facing metro termini (forcing interchange) at Schofields. Personally I think it's crazy and that services should run straight through. If there has to be an interchange I think St Marys might be easier.
 

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If there has to be an interchange I think St Marys might be easier.
That means anyone from other stations on the Richmond line would need three trains to reach the new airport and the Aerotropolis, not just two trains.

I know the same can be said about say, Penrith to NWRL commercial destinations (with changes at both St.Mays and again at Schofields) however the Aerotropolis is meant to be one of the three big cities.
 

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More than length, the bigger issue with merging the two lines is that the GW metro will probably be planned to have light metro-style stock (i.e. 2-4 carriages, rather than 6-8 carriages, with scope to have a significantly smaller loading gauge as well). There simply won't ever be the demand on the line to exceed what a light metro train running every couple of minutes could handle, and shorter, skinnier trains can have major savings for construction costs.

Also, metros are not like mainline rail. There is very little disbenefit to having incompatible loading gauges for different lines, as the best practice for metros is to have networks where lines run autonomously from each other, and the people do the interchanging. Trying to interline everything only leads to operational complexity and inefficiencies.
 

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Perpetual Bohemian
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Alarm bells would ring in my head at any suggestion of different standards for different lines. I would think the main variation would be running shorter or longer consists according to demand.
 

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London Underground is often held up as a great system, but almost every line is incompatible, be it signaling systems, or tunnel size. Each line has its dedicated stock.
 

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And similarly NY has different train and tunnel widths.
It's already been suggested that any new dedicated line is likely to be 25kV AC
 

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Perpetual Bohemian
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Comparing with other systems that have developed over more than a century is not really relevant. The Sydney system is a modern one being built today. However, I'm not so much talking about incompatibilites between different lines that are always likely to be isolated (for example, the West Metro with its long station spacings might require trains with a 130 km/h maximum speed), but incompatibilites along the same line.

It sounds like Bankstown to Macarthur is about the same length as Perth's north-south line which is currently 110 km and will be extended to over 120 km. There is a depot near either end of the line.
 

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I like the idea of a Leppington to Richmond being the only like terminating at Richmond. Also stopping all stations allowing many Penrith and other trains running express. Additional trains starting at St. Mary's can run all stations to the CBD.

The Richmond services would then be able to interchange with 3 Metro lines (maybe 4), CBD express trains, CBD all stoppers, Macarthur/KSIA trains as well as whatever connects through Villawood.

The only negative is that 9 stations won't have a single seat to the CBD (but will still likely have a faster trip than currently).
I was thinking a pattern at peak something like
6 tph Emu Plains, all stations to St Marys - Westmead, Parra, Strathfield, CBD
6 tph St Marys, all stations to Blacktown - Westmead, Parra, Strathfield, CBD
Up to 6tph Blue Mountains, Penrith, Blacktown - Westmead, Parra, Strathfield, CBD (some could start at Emu plains if that is too many for Blue Mountains)

Plenty of faster services at Blacktown for Richmond line users to pick up
 
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