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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I think doctors should be forced to terminate (i.e. abortion) in this circumstance. Nobody wins in this case, not even the baby who will have disadvantaged life and be paraded in public for their parent's exposure. These bogans on welfare and on public housing block already have seven children. So mum's on disability pension and dad's on carer's pension. Why are we subsidizing these baby poopers?

There is no room for silly religious questions because society's priority takes precedence and it should have been aborted swiftly.





Sydney woman Renee Young has given birth to twin girls born with a very rare medical condition called diprosopus.

The girls, named Hope and Faith, share a heart, a body, limbs and a skull, but they each have their own brain and a set of identical facial features.

Ms Young and her partner Simon Howie, parents to seven other children, said the girls were doing well after being born on Thursday.

“They are breathing perfectly on their own and feeding,” Mr Howie told Woman's Day.

“They even had their first bath last night.

“We have no idea how long they will be in hospital. We just want to bring them home, happy and healthy to make our family a little bit bigger and a bit more chaotic.”

The couple discovered during an ultrasound at 19 weeks into the pregancy that the girls would be born with diprosopus, also known as cranialfacial duplication.

Doctors told the couple that they should consider terminating the pregnancy. Developmental issues meant the babies might have difficulty breathing once they were born.


But they decided to go ahead with the pregnancy and at 32 weeks, Ms Young gave birth by emergency Caesarean at Blacktown Hospital. The twins weighed just over two kilograms.

“Even though there is only one body, we call them our twins,” Mr Howie told Woman's Day. “To us, they are our girls and we love them.”

There have been only 35 similar cases recorded worldwide and none of those babies survived.

In a Channel Nine report in February, foetal specialist Dr Greg Kesby said that a good outcome for the pregnancy would be difficult.

"In fact, some would say impossible to get to a good outcome. But people’s definition of good varies and, to them, they want to enjoy the fact that they have a daughter and they want their family of seven others to enjoy the pregnancy.”

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-wo...oined-twins-20140512-zrad9.html#ixzz31b9d9b6V

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-two-faces-two-brains-defy-doctors-child.html

'If we have to go back to work, we will,' said Ms Young who is on a disability pension for her severe rheumatoid arthritis and is looked after by Mr Howie, who draws a carer's pension.

The couple's three teenage daughters, Jess, Patsy-Anne and Angel said they did not believe their mother should terminate the pregnancy.
 

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Miliux, you routinely display the empathy of a rock, but in this case you're right. That the pregnancy wasn't terminated will lead to nothing but pain and suffering for these two children and wasted expense for the state.
 

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I think doctors should be forced to terminate (i.e. abortion) in this circumstance.
That the pregnancy wasn't terminated will lead to nothing but pain and suffering for these two children and wasted expense for the state.
So abortions should be enforced, against a parents will, halfway through a pregnancy, to save us some money.

If I didn’t read this with my own eyes, I wouldn’t believe it.

If this is in any way a representative view it would appear to me that Australia , and the West in general, is losing its moral compass.
 

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^ I think it is pretty strange that Miliux said "the doctors should be forced to terminate". What a horribly cruel world we would have if he had his way.
 

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Miliux, you routinely display the empathy of a rock, but in this case you're right. That the pregnancy wasn't terminated will lead to nothing but pain and suffering for these two children and wasted expense for the state.
These twins could grow up into adults with full lives. What gives you or the state the right to deny them this chance? Life is worth a struggle.
 

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skyscraper connoisseur
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
These twins could grow up into adults with full lives. What gives you or the state the right to deny them this chance? Life is worth a struggle.
Both their parents are on pension payments which have very little payment to bring a successful life especially when you factor in the added cost in health. The twins will face tremendous difficulty in employment and have a quality of life like those without severe disability.

There is very little no benefit when the parents have no capacity to financially support, the kids requiring special consideration throughout life and the society to financially support them. There is also a high risk of brain damage which will ultimately lead to slow and painful death.

Remember there are two humans with the same body. That's a lifelong struggle.
 

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These twins could grow up into adults with full lives. What gives you or the state the right to deny them this chance? Life is worth a struggle.
The state doesn't have the right, and it's my mistake that I didn't qualify that. But they should never have been brought to term. That's why amniocentesis is done; that's why the 12 week ultrasound is done.

Unfortunately, there is effectively zero chance of the two of them living long. This is not a case of viable or arguably viable conjoined twins. When one twin dies things get even harder.
 

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Unfortunately, there is effectively zero chance of the two of them living long. This is not a case of viable or arguably viable conjoined twins. When one twin dies things get even harder.
How do you know this? It is an extremely rare condition so there's not a lot of data on the chances and the most recent other such case occurred in India, and received no medical attention because an Indian village thought it was a reincarnated god. This Australian baby has a much better chance.

Also, there is a cat with such a condition which has managed to survive for 12 years when most such cats live no longer than 4 days. http://www.personal.psu.edu/afr3/blogs/SIOW/2011/10/double-take.html

Hope and Faith will hopefully be this lucky.
 

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Both their parents are on pension payments which have very little payment to bring a successful life especially when you factor in the added cost in health. The twins will face tremendous difficulty in employment and have a quality of life like those without severe disability.

There is very little no benefit when the parents have no capacity to financially support, the kids requiring special consideration throughout life and the society to financially support them. There is also a high risk of brain damage which will ultimately lead to slow and painful death.

Remember there are two humans with the same body. That's a lifelong struggle.
"Both their parents are on pension payments" ... Miliux, there are problems here, but as you can see from the postings here, conjoined twins can grow up and thrive.

These conjoined twins are more closely conjoined ... which will present problems. All this stuff about their parent's financial circumstances, is quite frankly, highly offensive. Will we write off people on account of their parent's income? Maybe we'd rather spend the money on inflated maternity leave for millionares?
 

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There is a valid argument for both sides. I don't think there is a right or wrong solution - other than increasing medical technology to detect and correct genetic disorders.
 

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There is a valid argument for both sides. I don't think there is a right or wrong solution - other than increasing medical technology to detect and correct genetic disorders.
OK ...

The first statement above is fine, but says nothing ... and perhaps says something significant we don't often hear.

And this is the same in the second statement ( prior to the "-").

Now all the substance lies in those last few words - and the last two in particular: "detect and correct genetic disorders".

What is a "genetic disorder"? There would be heaps of opinions on this ... which would include, today, haemophilia, which was tracked very well through the Regal Famillies of Europe, due to their notoriety.

I think you'll find that being conjoined in the womb is not a genetic disorder: were that the case, in way or another, it would be more or less predictable: and, correct me if I'm wrong, but no'one's been identified as a potential parent of congenital twins.

So far, it isn't genetic.

Now ... I'm sure it's detectable ... as to being correctable ... how would you do that?

To be quite honest, there are conjoined twins that lived through maturity: and no doubt some that have died in infancy.

I think we should be very careful here: if it's genetic, then enlighten me ( and the rest of the world).

Conjoined twins may be unusual ("about 1 in 30,000 to 50,000 are conjoined, about 1 in 200,000 make it to birth") ... and no doubt face far more problems than you or I ... perhaps we should all give them a chance- even if they don't look like what we'd expect ... these were all kids who eventually realized they were quite different: it's a measure of our Nation how we treat them (and don't get me started on Manus Island).
 

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There is a valid argument for both sides. I don't think there is a right or wrong solution - other than increasing medical technology to detect and correct genetic disorders.
Do you really want to live in a society in which people abort babies simply because they don't fit in with the culturally accepted idea of normality?
 

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Both their parents are on pension payments which have very little payment to bring a successful life especially when you factor in the added cost in health. The twins will face tremendous difficulty in employment and have a quality of life like those without severe disability.

There is very little no benefit when the parents have no capacity to financially support, the kids requiring special consideration throughout life and the society to financially support them. There is also a high risk of brain damage which will ultimately lead to slow and painful death.

Remember there are two humans with the same body. That's a lifelong struggle.

So if the parents were both highly paid you wouldn't have a problem with them bringing their child into this world?

It's disgusting to think you seem more worried about these human beings being a burden on society than you are worried about them functioning in normal life.
 
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