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moonage daydream
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626 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Income Taxes Explained:
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20."Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.


For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
 

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moonage daydream
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626 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I thought this little example hits the nail right on the head!:eek:hno:
 

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Ex-mod
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7,931 Posts
WTF? LMAO.....that's Quebec?
 

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"The Ignorant Fool"
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2,576 Posts
Great little allegory. I hope ALL the forumers read this. We have quite a few with socialist leanings here. Thanks.
 

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www.mtlurb.com
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2,159 Posts
TooFar, thanks again for shitting on Quebec, matter of fact is that every province except Alberta has this progressive taxation system, and yes those who don't pay any taxes are the one who complain the most about tax reduction... it goes without saying.
 

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moonage daydream
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626 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Malek, Unfortunately it is all too easy. I’m just very annoyed about the promised tax cuts in the budget and the fact that apparently 70% of Quebecers are against the tax cuts. Well you know why 70% are against it? Because most don’t pay any tax to begin with.

Do you realize that only 27% of Quebecers pay income tax? And of those 27% there are people like me who lose more than half of every dollar they earn via some form of Government tax, whether it is income, school, property, GST/PST or other fees and services charges.

Do you really believe this is sustainable system? Where is the incentive for educated professionals to continue to work and live here when a little over a quarter of the population is expected to bankroll the entire province? Where is the fairness in that?

Okay, rant over…
 

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Provinces, territories and regions should not be allowed to lower taxes if they are accepting equalization.
 

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www.mtlurb.com
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2,159 Posts
vid: 6 out of 8 provinces who recieved equalization have lowered their taxes in their latest budgets. The equalization law clearly states that provinces must offer similar services AND be competitive tax wise too, and we're not even touching the question of provincial jurisdiction over transferred money.

Toofar: 42% of workers don't pay income taxes at all (income too low, children, tax deducations, good accountants or all of them combined :) ), and its very comparable to Ontario(~40%) and Alberta (~43%), this mean that 58% do pay taxes, of those who work of course which is the only important number (employment numbers are: Quebec 60.8%, Ontario 63.5%, Alberta 71.1%)

I don't know where your 27% comes from, but it must be the number of people paying compared to all population (children, elders, disabled, etc included). Even if I take the 60.8% of activity * 58 % of those paying taxes, I still get 35%). Ontario would give 38.1% and Alberta 40.5%.

I must say that I too also hate the fact that 70% of people were against them, but how can you be for them when 42% don't pay any?

I too don't find it fair that the person not paying a penny to the govt can bitch louder than me and use the same services...

The taxation system in Canada is progressive (except Alberta) and its part of this country's mentality, i guess we have to live with it.

employment numbers: http://www.statcan.ca/francais/Subjects/Labour/LFS/lfs-en_f.htm
 

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I too don't find it fair that the person not paying a penny to the govt can bitch louder than me and use the same services...

1. everyone deserves an equal bitch
2. low income people are least likely to vote
 

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Registered
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3,488 Posts
Income Taxes Explained:
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20."Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.


For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
Ah, nothing quite like reading libertarian claptrap. The 9 surrounding to beat the 10th sounds like something straight out of an Ayn Rand book.
 
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