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How will you vote on June 23?

  • Leave

    Votes: 30 27.8%
  • Leave but unlikely to vote

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Stay

    Votes: 68 63.0%
  • Stay but unlikely to vote

    Votes: 6 5.6%
  • Undecided but will vote

    Votes: 3 2.8%
  • Undecided and unlikely to vote

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Total voters
    108
  • Poll closed .
1 - 20 of 14137 Posts

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Remain. But I think the eurozone was a terrible idea for everyone apart from Germany and the Benelux countries. I don't think the eurozone crisis can be resolved without either (1) much closer fiscal integration (which is now politically impossible), or (2) abandoning the Euro, or (3) splitting the Euro in 2 currencies (southern and northern).
 

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Londonese
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306 Posts
Remain. But I think the eurozone was a terrible idea for everyone apart from Germany and the Benelux countries. I don't think the eurozone crisis can be resolved without either (1) much closer fiscal integration (which is now politically impossible), or (2) abandoning the Euro, or (3) splitting the Euro in 2 currencies (southern and northern).
The European Union are intent on developing a fiscal union. It is the only way forward. I'm sure the forces that be will try to find a way to push through the necessary changes surreptitiously.
 

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***Alexxx***
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5,160 Posts
I'm voting to Leave.

I like the idea of 'some kind of EU' but in the current form its too big and out of hand.
I wish the EU well - but its time for us to get out.
 

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8,396 Posts
The EU isn't perfect but it is democratic , we are better placed within the EU when we can influence policy and decision making than being outside and looking in.

Besides i don't trust this current government with issues regarding the environment and civil liberties , if we were to leave.
 

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1,289 Posts
EU reform in the form that most in Britain would favour is impossible. At best we have the ability to veto further treaty change, but ultimately the UK and the EU are pulling in different directions. It makes sense for us to part ways now, and with luck we can start a chain of events that will lead to the collapse of the EU and the creation of something more sensible in it's place.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Besides i don't trust this current government with issues regarding the environment and civil liberties , if we were to leave.
If the EU never existed then people like yourself would not give up on the environment or civil liberties, they/you would instead direct your energies towards winning a democractic mandate for them. As it is we have the EU pushing forward the agenda without the democractic mandate, which brings good causes into disrepute.

Accountability is a good thing so is democracy. Bemoaning that the public is too stupid to vote for the right government/policies so let's avoid democracy is however dangerous.
 

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Londonese
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306 Posts
It's an out for me. The main reason being the lack of democratic accountability of the European Commission and the underlining principle of ever closer union which I can't agree with.

Love Europe, hate the EU!
The EU is more democratically accountable than the UK government.

Ever closer union is just a trite slogan like 'the special relationship'. It doesn't mean anything and isn't worth jeopardising our economy over.
 

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3,197 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
For you Londonese,

Scenario A:

New Labour are elected and they enact policy X.

Electorate has mixed feelings about policy X and eventually the public mood is for policy X to be repealed.

The Conservatives promise to repeal policy X if they win power.

The Conservatives win and policy X is repealed.

Scenario B:

New Labour are elected and they sign the UK up to policy X. All 28 EU governments also agree and policy X becomes law.

The EU and the UK electorate has mixed feelings about policy X and eventually the public mood across the EU is for policy X to be repealed.

But for a minority of countries policy X works well so not all 28 EU governments are able to agree to the repeal of policy X.

Policy X stays.

So we see the EU can be a very poor system of democracy, which is capable of undermining the democratic will of the electorate.
 

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470 Posts
The EU is more democratically accountable than the UK government.

Ever closer union is just a trite slogan like 'the special relationship'. It doesn't mean anything and isn't worth jeopardising our economy over.
1. Have a closer look at the power that the EU Commission holds and then look at how the 28 members are selected. Then consider whether or not it's democratic.
2. "Ever closer union" is almost the exact opposite of a trite slogan. It is the central driving principal of the EU. Every treaty since the mid 80's has been delivering on that. A Federal Europe is the stated end goal.
 

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Not entirely buried. One can see some rather nice steel caps. Something might well be underway before the century is out. JC Morgan might even leave the United Kingdom for Europe.
 

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Not entirely buried. One can see some rather nice steel caps. Something might well be underway before the century is out. JC Morgan might even leave the United Kingdom for Europe.
As far as i am aware, the UK is in Europe and has no physical way of leaving regardless of the referendum on it's EU membership.
 

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As far as i am aware, the UK is in Europe and has no physical way of leaving regardless of the referendum on it's EU membership.
Don't the Monster Raving Loony Party have it in their manifesto that they'll move the UK to the Caribbean? They've got as much at winning as Jezza's Labour at present.
 

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Let the Jam decide
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2,016 Posts
As far as i am aware, the UK is in Europe and has no physical way of leaving regardless of the referendum on it's EU membership.
True, but if we leave all the banks will have to move to an EU country to continue to do business in Europe so get used to mass unemployment and abandoned sites if we do.
 

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274 Posts
True, but if we leave all the banks will have to move to an EU country to continue to do business in Europe so get used to mass unemployment and abandoned sites if we do.
Thats not true. The word on the ground is most banks will only move what they need to in to europe. 'Only' about 30% of the cities trade is euro area related.
 

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Some amount of guff written here about banks moving. The same guff that was written when Britain declined to join the euro. I believe Frankfurt was to eclipse London utterly...

European banking (and indeed much of the world outside the US) is dominated by LMA standard documentation and English law, banks have vast capital expenditures in moving, and much of their business doesn't require an EU presence per se, especially as they can then chuck MiFID, AIFMD etc.
 
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