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Sydney: World's best city
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I've had enough of whinging about Cityrail in other threads in this forum eg trains were late because of this etc... so I thought i'd be a good idea there could be a thread where people can complain about Cityrail. It can be anything like late trains, ticket inspectors, the trains themselves or the poor state of Cityrail in General.

I launch this thread by saying how disgusted I was at a train not being permitted to enter Central Station for 6 mins just after 5pm yesterday because of a bloody red signal. It was the same signals which saw me held on a train for 15 minutes one year ago. I'm fed up at the fact Cityrail can do that, when it's obviously safe for a train to enter a station and be permitted to stay there.
 

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^ Yeah, it's like "just let me off, it's clear ahead" at that stage!!

This is my kinda thread! :bleep:

I take trains only once a fortnight on average, but everytime I do, it's just so ridiculous! (fortunately I live in the inner-city and everything I need is around).

Almost 2 weeks ago was the last time. I stood on Town Hall Station's platform for over 20 mins just to take a train to St Leos. This was at 10.00AM, when many are still making their way to work, there are business people travelling and assorted others are doing their "stuff".

During this time, the indicators changed 3 times as to when the next train was coming, and even then the final one wasn't right!!

Being a fully-fledged transport proponent, I stood there fuming. Not only because I had to wait but thinking objectively on how a city of 4 1/2 million can have such a system!! :no: Your emotions run the gamut - a mixture of civic pride being quashed, embaressment for visitors to Sydney and anger.

As someone said to me a while ago, Sydney's train system is operating like Brisbane's was in the 70s.

:sleepy:

...
 

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I recently arrived at Domestic airport terminal from a flight and only waited 5 mins for a train to Wolli creek interchange. Then waited 8 mins for a connecting Cronulla service train. This was at 6.50pm on Monday and arrived at Miranda at 7.40pm. :)

I was quite impressed with the service, although the $12.40 charge on single adult ticket from Domestic to Miranda was a little steep> no wonder that line is suffering from commuter shortage.
 

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what i can't work out is why it took so long and cost so much to make up a new time table that just reduced trains... what kind of think tank where they using?

when i was living on the north shore line, i use to love rail busses (welcome to every second weekend!) because some how they ran frequently and on time.
 

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Malt said:
lol. I dont understand how it can run so innefficiantly.

What causes them to be delayed? equiptment? bad planning? bad staff?
Basically an incompetant management, and pollitical interferance for the past 40 odd years.

Today, my crush load cronulla train terminated with 10 seconds notice at hurstville. Both patforms were just full of fuming people.

Also my train from sutherland took 35minutes, to travel what it usually does in 9minutes. Ended up being 30minutes late into the city.

Though it has improved, i haven't had a train run 75 minutes late again

how can trains be late. they are NEVER late in brisbane. its not as if there is train jams. whats the hold up!
Technically you can say there is.... in peak anyways.
They have too many trains, with too many different stopping patterns running, to the city, which means that you usually end up crawling through the city. The underground was designed for 38trains per hour, but with double deck trains, is constrained to around 18 trains per hour, and in the height of peak hour, cityrail tries to get 20 trains per hour though. Also add that in with insanely narrow platforms at the busiest stations.....

This would work, but they would be reluctant to introduce it, as it slows down quite a few trains.

 

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I only travel in the off-peak and the trains don't seem to be late. Even if I just rock up to the station without looking at the timetable it's usually a short wait.
Now just have to wait for them to scrap the R/S sets.
 

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Everything with Sydney's trains. It's all these little things causing one big mess.

* You've got different stopping patterns sharing the same track. What happens is you get express or limited stops (LS) trains catching up to a late all stations train ahead, leaving the Ex or LS to crawl slowly behing the all stops services. This problem can also be contributed to the fact that Sydneysiders aren't used to changing trains to get to their destination. They want to just sit on the train and just be there. The clearways program, will segregate the lines, so some will terminate, and one will have to switch trains to get to wehrever they want to go.
* Lack of signallers - if there were more they'd be able to handle train services cocking up better by being more ready to allow trains to overtake, cahnge track etc with shorter delays for the services waiting on red.
* Double decker carriages increase dwell times at major stops.
* Poor frequencies - who in this day and age wants to wait more than 15 minutes for a train? The threshold is even lower for ppl who are simply changing lines.

Then there's the occasional accident that can't be blamed on lack of funding. Eg, a fatality on the tracks, a fire drill at Starthfield Signal Box (this happened to me a few days ago), etc.

Have a look at this interesting scan comparing Perth's rail speed to Sydney's. It's from a Commonwealth Discussion Paper on Transit Supportive Development for the Better Cities Program in 1995.

[
 

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Introducing Double Deck would have to be one of the main culprits.

I noticed when I was last down there that it takes alot longer to load and unload because there are so many people rushing for 2 doors.

There also seems to be a lack of infrastructure mostly at entrances to the city loop which seems to be a bottleneck in Peak hour.
 

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It'd be really nice, but expensive and not entirely necessary to quadruplicate the City Circle.

What occurs atm is the Old Main South Line Trains (Livo via Granville) and Main South Line (Livo via Rego) merge from quad track to just dual track at McDonaldtown because there's only dual track at the CBD. (FYI, Old Main South Trains also share their track pair with Blacktown, slow Penrith, and suburban Main North Trains.)
Same occurs for Bankstown Line and East Hills line trains at Central - two lines on two separate sets of track merging into one.

Now capacity on the city circle isn't a problem itself. If signalling is improved then you'd get trains every 2 min going thru the Circle in each direction, then you can still acheive a good 4 min frequency on the lines one you're out of the Circle. The slight problem would be if two trains showed up at the junction at the same time, then one would have to slowdown or stop for the other to switch track. This would only cause a 1-3 min delay. The main obstacle is dwell times at city stations, as at peak this is a much more frequent & prevalent problem than the former.

Mind you, the fact that a train has to switch track at all causes knock on effect on other lines too. Eg, an EB train from Granville, has to cross the WB track, which could slow down or cause the WB train to Granville to stop.
 

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Fabian said:
I launch this thread by saying how disgusted I was at a train not being permitted to enter Central Station for 6 mins just after 5pm yesterday because of a bloody red signal.
Platform?

I'm fed up at the fact Cityrail can do that, when it's obviously safe for a train to enter a station and be permitted to stay there.
If it's red then in all likelihood its not obviously safe. If the signal was on auto then the other train was at most in the signalling 'block' ahead. So the question would be, why wasn't the train ahead moving?

Now if it was being controlled by the signaller, then he was being a dofus (or was overworked). In many cases signallers are incompetent and the competent ones are hamstrung anyway by idiotic train controllers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
hornetfig said:
Platform?

If it's red then in all likelihood its not obviously safe. If the signal was on auto then the other train was at most in the signalling 'block' ahead. So the question would be, why wasn't the train ahead moving?

Now if it was being controlled by the signaller, then he was being a dofus (or was overworked). In many cases signallers are incompetent and the competent ones are hamstrung anyway by idiotic train controllers.
It was platform 16 and the service was the Wyong (Via the North Shore Line)Service.
 

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Muse said:
...and they are the Aussies!! :eek:

I wanna hear more whingey stories - years ahead for those and a hundrerd new threads created for them!!

...
You wanna hear a whinging story??

My bankstown train was delayed between Redfern and Erskineville once. . .:lol:

oh...and how come Town Hall has such narrow platforms. . .
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
James said:
Basically an incompetant management, and pollitical interferance for the past 40 odd years.

Today, my crush load cronulla train terminated with 10 seconds notice at hurstville. Both patforms were just full of fuming people.

Also my train from sutherland took 35minutes, to travel what it usually does in 9minutes. Ended up being 30minutes late into the city.

Though it has improved, i haven't had a train run 75 minutes late again
I've read that there have been problems with many Cronulla services in the evening terminating at Sutherland instead of going to Cronulla, and it's been going on for a while. A few weeks ago, the 5:14pm Cronulla service from Central was merged with the 5:19pm Waterfall Service. I cannot remember if it went only to Sutherland or continued onto Waterfall, but it turned up somewhere between the time the services ran.

The 4:29pm Cronulla service from Central which I take each Monday was cancelled, which was unusual. Thank goodness I made it in time to catch the 4:24 Hurstville service, which I do catch sometimes if I feel it will get me to Rockdale ahead of the express (which it does most time I catch it). The next train, the 4:33pm to Waterfall was already at the time running 15 mins late (according to indicator boards) meaning a 20 minute wait was on the cards for those who didn't get on board that train.

no name said:
I only travel in the off-peak and the trains don't seem to be late. Even if I just rock up to the station without looking at the timetable it's usually a short wait.
Now just have to wait for them to scrap the R/S sets.
I find it to be the reverse. On the Illawarra line trains are 5-10 minutes late during the period. Waterfall bound trains are the main culpruits for the delays. They are 10 minutes late and end up holding trains bound for Cronulla. Peak hour (both morning and afternoon) is better though.
 

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Fabian said:
I've read that there have been problems with many Cronulla services in the evening terminating at Sutherland instead of going, and it's been going on for a while. A few weeks ago, the 5:14pm Cronulla service from Central was merged with the 5:19pm Waterfall Service. I cannot remember if it went only to Sutherland or continued onto Waterfall, but it turned up somewhere between the time the services ran.
Yep, i do know that they have been terminating a lot of them early at Sutherland, but this was at hurstville, which was quite unusual. As soon as everyone was off, the cronulla train shunted into the terminating neck at Hurstville, and stayed there. That is very odd - if the train was defective, they would have taken it to mortdale directly, if it was returning to the city, they could have left it on 1, and let the only (citybound) train on one for 30minutes go onto platform 2.

Oh and for some reason it skipped wolli creek and rockdale. it was a bit indecisive about whether it was stopping at kogarah iirc too.
 

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nikko said:
You wanna hear a whinging story??

My bankstown train was delayed between Redfern and Erskineville once. . .:lol:

oh...and how come Town Hall has such narrow platforms. . .
Originally built was the deepest station on the network. There are many cables interfering with TH station, so the planners went with depth rather than width under the George St, where hundreds of cables (water, gas, electricity) snake around the city.

Or perhaps they thought the system would need narrow platforms, because they were expecting a world class, efficient system where waiting times would never be longer than 2 minutes. Frequency of service would not cause long queues...mmmm.... :runaway:
 
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