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sorry for those victims, but you have to be aware that dirty secrets exist in every country, democratic or not. The fundamental question is, how do most of people feel?
 

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I already knew China forcibly moves residents into other areas in order to build developments. This doesn't surprise me at all (not because I'm anti-China because I'm NOT) but because every country has "dirty secrets". No country is perfect and believe me sometimes force is the only way to achieve certain things. I'm not saying that its right but you've gotta do what you've gotta do right? If using force is going to bring benefit later, its definately justified...

Chances are the residence where those people are being moved from falls behind in safety/ sanitary standards and so on...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
那些画面好像剪辑拼凑出来的

我看到贵州什么什么的
还有六四的画面
看了一下这个网站,好像几乎所有的关于中国的视频里边都有六四的镜头。
 

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Western countries just can't stand the fact that communist China is doing so well, so.....
Well, as I said, the fundamental question is, how do most of Chinese feel? In this regard, those China-bashing campaign was completely failed.
 

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As far as I know, the latest 2004 version of the Chinese Constitution DOES WRITTERN the Gov’t would compensate those residents who live those requisite land. The problem is that many officials don’t do the job properly and that make many residents in anger. That also made Premier Wen Jiabao in a huge headache. :|
 

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it is classical British view on China. They call it: 'SECRET BEHIND CHINA's ECONOMY'. It makes like China develop its economy by pulling down people's house and treating people badly. I think the development of Chinese economy depends on hard-working of entire nation. It is not news anymore for every Chinese to know this sort of thing and you can even get this news on official sites.

Pulling down houses are not new for many Chinese and most of them are happy about it. Certainly, there are unfair treatment and some of the local officer are very bad. Sky just find this old news today. I think 'Sky' should up-dated its mind and report real news.
 

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Handsome said:
那些画面好像剪辑拼凑出来的

我看到贵州什么什么的
还有六四的画面
看了一下这个网站,好像几乎所有的关于中国的视频里边都有六四的镜头。
中国建国后近30年已经见的太多的游行,批判,夺权,革命,对稳定的渴望还是很多的,而且对学生也没有太多好感,因为当年红卫兵的主力就是学生,而红卫兵不知道整了多少人。当年一篇社论“要旗帜鲜明地反对动乱”,不能不说完全没有作用。而当时社会的另一大主力,工人,是热烈拥护毛泽东的,很多人甚至怀念,在90年代初兴起的毛泽东热,各种文革时期的赞颂毛泽东的歌曲又重新流行不能不说有一点这些原因,他们有点不支持改革,这是90年代初反改革力量的重要来源,六四的导火线是急剧的通货膨胀等改革措施引起的危机。在那个时候,出租车上挂起了毛泽东像,毛泽东开始进一步被神化。
所以90年代初的时候,改革开始陷入停顿,甚至出现了要惩治浙江温州那些商人大款的呼声,认为他们依靠假货,各种不正当手段发家。从而引起了商人恐慌,害怕国家政策改变。
在这个时候,就有了邓小平的南巡,邓小平视察深圳,提出开发上海浦东,一锤定音,93年中央提出了“建立社会主义市场经济”,在以前是根本不敢提市场经济的,提的时候也必须讲上以计划经济为主之类的。
所以浙江之类的是很感激邓小平的。总之情况就是改革受益的感谢邓小平,失去利益的怀念毛泽东,只有学生和知识分子趋向于民主,况且这个还只是80年代的时候,现在又有了民族主义和新左派,新儒家之类的不同派别。而在中国的历史上和西方有个最大的不同就在于,中国古代结构是以科举考试来决定官员的,这就注定了知识分子肯定当官,这种观念在下层平民的心里根深蒂固,所以他们就认为知识分子和官员是一样的上层人,不可能真正代表他们,这和西方知识分子超脱阶级性有差别。
至于文革,其实文革的时候受到最大损害的是知识分子和官员及其亲戚,批斗什么的主要就是这些人。但是这些文革苦难对下层的工人等没有号召力。而在知识分子和官员中,又有相当一部分是支持邓小平的,因为当年邓小平和他们一样受批斗,而现在走的路也是符合他们利益的。

所以我觉得即使是中国发生了变化,也更容易退回到毛泽东时期有点“民粹化”的特点,而“民主”则是非常遥远,而且经济改革也可能会很不利,就和90年代初的停顿一样。至于外商等可能也会受损失,更严重的是,由于美国轰炸使馆引起的民族主义情绪进一步,这种“民族主义”与“民粹化”结合,经济停滞可能会导致实质上的军国化。

所以有人就提出,中国发生政治动荡,最有可能的结果就是民粹化和军国化。而不大可能使民主化,即使是在俄罗斯,现在也出现了新纳粹和排外主义盛行。而中国要出现军国化,那么波及的就是整个东亚,世界制造的重要中心。
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
hkth said:
As far as I know, the latest 2004 version of the Chinese Constitution DOES WRITTERN the Gov’t would compensate those residents who live those requisite land. The problem is that many officials don’t do the job properly and that make many residents in anger. That also made Premier Wen Jiabao in a huge headache. :|
也许那些城中村原本就不是合法的建造的。
因此国家强制拆除后就不会有赔偿。

要是房子是合法的,国家征地肯定会补偿,只是多与少的问题。
 

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最无聊的就是轮子,这种东西在国内无论是左派右派都不喜欢,都觉得特傻,居然还有人相信这个,至于轮子说自焚案是政府操纵的,这种说法更没有人相信,想象看,有谁会拿自己的生命来冒险,说逼的就更无聊了,轮子这种东西值得政府通过造假来证明?像是“神医”“气功大师”这些江湖骗子不知道有多少,各种无聊的功都有,什么灵魂出窍,耳朵识字,隔瓶取物的东西不知有多少。
这种东西居然还有这么大声势,就算拿钱帮民运也比这个强。
想以此来发动下层的人,像当年太平天国或者是白莲教之类的,文革前还可以,文革中红卫兵砸了那么多的寺庙,破四旧不是白破的,像是这种东西的影响力早就减到很低了,比氛围连香港台湾都比不过,依靠轮子也的确太傻了。
 

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wigo said:
Western countries just can't stand the fact that communist China is doing so well, so.....
Well, as I said, the fundamental question is, how do most of Chinese feel? In this regard, those China-bashing campaign was completely failed.
How do most Chinese feel? Are you kidding me? The whole point of the video is that people are being removed from their homes AND not compensated. We sometimes have that here for freeway construction, but people are given fair compensation, not thrown out on the streets in freezing temperatures to fend for themselves.

If anything, that's communist China (shown in the video) and its NOT doing so well.

If communist China were doing "so" well, why do police prevent video recording? Why are masses protesting? China overall is doing quite well, but as you saw with the burned man's sign, human rights are important.
 

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DasAutoKerl said:
How do most Chinese feel? Are you kidding me? The whole point of the video is that people are being removed from their homes AND not compensated. We sometimes have that here for freeway construction, but people are given fair compensation, not thrown out on the streets in freezing temperatures to fend for themselves.

If anything, that's communist China (shown in the video) and its NOT doing so well.

If communist China were doing "so" well, why do police prevent video recording? Why are masses protesting? China overall is doing quite well, but as you saw with the burned man's sign, human rights are important.
Because most of these stuff was fabricated, exagrated, and pasted from other places, these are the dirty secrets of China-bashing campaigns.
 

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wigo said:
Because most of these stuff was fabricated, exagrated, and pasted from other places, these are the dirty secrets of China-bashing campaigns.
Why would the British want to bash on Chinese gov't?

I mean...look at the video. These are real people, put on the streets as their homes are taken away. Does that seem right to you? What if someone did the exact same thing to you. Smashed your home (condo, building, whatever) and said "sorry, go away." ?

I can understand if the government replaces their homes or compensates them, but the video makes it look quite wrong. How is it you know they're fabricated? If these are lies, what's the truth? Please share, as I'm not in China to see these things, and must rely on outside souces...
 

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Tell you one thing, the footage about Romania dictator, Ciosescu, showing massacre of people, was fabricated by US, they actually piling bodies from somewhere and telling that it was committed by Ciosescu. And this footage trigered whole Romania process......

Why British wants to bash on China, because every country is selfish, they simply are unhappy to see China getting rich. Besides, British did horrible thing to China, now there are still tones of Chinese treasures in British Museum, which they took in the oppium war.

And finally, think again, the shock therapy which bankrupted Russia, is a naive mistake or intentional plot? I think you are just too naive.
 

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The bottomline is, the Chinese government does indeed have a lot to improve on, but at the same time, Western media and governments, namely U.S. and the British, tend to purposely exaggerate the problems in order to make China look bad for their own selfish purposes. Of course, U.S. and the Brits aren't the only ones who do such things.

For us Chinese, we need to 反省 first and reflect on what the Chinese government is doing right and what they are doing wrong. We also need to keep a suspicious mind when it comes to anti-China Western propaganda.
 

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I think China will become more and more democratic and transparent, but I hope foreign countries and people will knowingly stay away from this process, because Chinese people simply has not trust for them, whatsoever.
 

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wigo said:
I think China will become more and more democratic and transparent, but I hope foreign countries and people will knowingly stay away from this process, because Chinese people simply has not trust for them, whatsoever.
Unfortunately we both know that won't happen.

The West isn't stupid and they know of China's potential. They would do everything they can to make sure they remain on top.
 

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^ On the other hand, Chinese people are not stupid either. The Soviet Union scenario is no way going to repeat in China.
 
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